Tailgating while overtaking

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 01:10
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif
This evening on the way home I was following a car and a horse box towed by a Land Rover. I overtook the car and was tailgated during the overtake by a muppet in a high end BMW. I pulled in behind the horse box. A few minutes later I overtook the horse box, and as before I was tailgated by the BMW. We were approaching the apex of a hill, and as I pulled in he overtook me. Just after I pulled in the white line in the centre of the road on our side became solid. Basically during most of his overtake of me, the line was solid. I checked the dash cam video afterwards, and what I failed to see is that he almost had a head on collision with an oncoming motorbike on the other side of the road. Quite why I failed to see the bike at the time is beyond me.

At the bottom of the hill there were lights, and I caught up with him and got his number plate. So it looks like the video will be off to the local police. I know some of you think sending in a video is wrong, but this driver is dangerous. It was a high end BMW on a fairly new plate too.

I just wonder why he takes the risk of a serious accident when he could have overtaken me a minute later in safety with no increase in journey time due to the lights! A high end car suggests he’s not thick, so why drive like a dork.
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Fri 15 Feb 2019 06:15
Tailgating while overtaking - Happy Blue!

You may be right, however about two years ago I had the opposite experience.

I was driving a Hyundai i10 on a country trunk road with a fair amount of traffic. I followed a BMW as we overtook a line of vehicles on a long straight But he hadn't buried his foot hard enough and as he got to the front of the line he tucked in without leaving me space to get behind him. Clearly not using his mirrors. I was left in limbo on the wrong side of the road facing a bend. I was lucky that I managed to overtake this car as we went around the bend.

Overtaking must be done at full chat to minimise the time on the wrong side of the road. This enables others overtaking with you the chance to pull in also.

Shows what a Muppet this guy was that I could overtake his BMW in a Hyundai i10.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 06:54
Tailgating while overtaking - straggler

You may be right, however about two years ago I had the opposite experience.

I was driving a Hyundai i10 on a country trunk road with a fair amount of traffic. I followed a BMW as we overtook a line of vehicles on a long straight But he hadn't buried his foot hard enough and as he got to the front of the line he tucked in without leaving me space to get behind him. Clearly not using his mirrors. I was left in limbo on the wrong side of the road facing a bend. I was lucky that I managed to overtake this car as we went around the bend.

Overtaking must be done at full chat to minimise the time on the wrong side of the road. This enables others overtaking with you the chance to pull in also.

Shows what a Muppet this guy was that I could overtake his BMW in a Hyundai i10.

So you started an overtake with no idea where you were going to safely pull in? And then you blame someone else for you ending up on the wrong side of the road, approaching a bend? It was not the BMW driver's responsibility to make sure YOU could carry out a safe overtake!

And going as fast as possible past a line of cars is asking for trouble - if one of the vehicles you are overtaking decides to go too you have not left enough time to react.

So, yeah - muppet. Unless you are just having a laugh with your post, of course.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 07:07
Tailgating while overtaking - badbusdriver

You may be right, however about two years ago I had the opposite experience.

I was driving a Hyundai i10 on a country trunk road with a fair amount of traffic. I followed a BMW as we overtook a line of vehicles on a long straight But he hadn't buried his foot hard enough and as he got to the front of the line he tucked in without leaving me space to get behind him. Clearly not using his mirrors. I was left in limbo on the wrong side of the road facing a bend. I was lucky that I managed to overtake this car as we went around the bend.

Overtaking must be done at full chat to minimise the time on the wrong side of the road. This enables others overtaking with you the chance to pull in also.

Shows what a Muppet this guy was that I could overtake his BMW in a Hyundai i10.

So you started an overtake with no idea where you were going to safely pull in? And then you blame someone else for you ending up on the wrong side of the road, approaching a bend? It was not the BMW driver's responsibility to make sure YOU could carry out a safe overtake!

And going as fast as possible past a line of cars is asking for trouble - if one of the vehicles you are overtaking decides to go too you have not left enough time to react.

So, yeah - muppet. Unless you are just having a laugh with your post, of course.

Quite agree, so much so that frankly i'm amazed that Hapy Blue would post that. Clearly the 'muppet' in the BMW was doing absolutely nothing wrong other than not going as fast as you wanted. It may well be wise to go a little faster than the limit to pass a line of cars, but only up to a point, and it certainly is not legal. Therefore saying "Overtaking must be done at full chat" is completely wrong and as Straggler points out, dangerous in its own right. As a driver, YOU are responsible for YOUR actions, the BMW driver isn't. If you can't see that it is safe and clear to overtake, then you shouldn't have done so. Furthermore, given you were in a Hyundai i10 i very much doubt that there wasn't enough room for you to slip in behind. I'm also curious to learn why the fact that you could overtake the BMW in an i10 marks out the BMW driver as a muppet?. Reading through this sorry tale, yes i would agree that there does appear to be 'a muppet' involved, but not in the BMW.

Edited by badbusdriver on 15/02/2019 at 07:08

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 08:04
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif

Reviewed the video this morning, and at one point I am doing 60 mph according to the dash cam and the limit is 50 mph, as confirmed by a sign after I pull in. Could the police use this to prosecute me for speeding even though the device is not calibrated?

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 08:58
Tailgating while overtaking - Chris M

Only one way to find out :)

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 09:02
Tailgating while overtaking - gordonbennet

The problem i have with this dash cam shopping issue is where exactly does this stop, we the general public are not the police, some of us have got a bit carried away with this video footage phenomenon, we as a society will not benefit from this in the long run....apparently some potential concentration camp guard has shopped Becks for an alleged mobile phone offence...is this what was once Gt Britain, if it is i want out.

Even if you are sitting in the passenger seat, you get a completely different view of that which would be seen from the driver's seat, and you have no idea what the driver has planned from one millisecond to the next, so judging a driver's actions from another moving vehicle is going to be infinitely more distorted.

I'm not perfect by any means, and nor is anyone else, i've made mistakes and got things wrong on the road, over the course of my driving life i've saved accidents happening caused by other people and it's entirely possible other people have saved me having an accident when i made a mess of something, it's all part of driving on ridiculously overcrowded roads in an overcrowded country, and it's going to get worse as human rats in a cage react as one might have expected to this overcrowding.

If this footage is submitted, what if the police want the sd card, what are you going to do delete every sequence except the one showing this other driver making a mess of things in case they could find a few things wrong you did as well, ie stop signs, bit late crossing an amber light, and the biggie being you have gps enabled so showing every single one of your speeding violations, one of the reasons i deliberately do not have a gps equipped dash cam....what if a defence barrister wants all your footage should the bod's family be well heeled enough to defend it.

I have dash cams front and rear, they are only there as evidence for my benefit in the case of an accident, or being what i hope is a reasonable citizen, i would also offer that footage in case i witnessed an accident or happened to catch a criminal doing something nasty on it, if i wanted to shop every idiot thing i see in the road i'd have a permanent live feed to the traffic dept.

Edited by gordonbennet on 15/02/2019 at 09:03

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 10:28
Tailgating while overtaking - sandy56

The general standard of driving now in the UK is very poor. The disappearance of the Police patrols isn't helping, and the number of accidents and incidents is increasing. The lack of care and attention to driving the main cause. Spending time on your phone whilst driving is a recipe for disaster. The fines applied are not enough as the numbers of drivers seen on the phone is increasing. We need stronger deterrents. Large fines needed, and car confiscated ?

I was thinking of getting a smaller car but these days a Landcruiser or similar seems like a better idea.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 10:57
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif

If the police had a live feed from my dash cam they'd fall asleep in no time at all. A car for me is a comfy seat, some nice music, and some soothing bucolic scenery outside. As for demanding my SD card, they can't do that. You submit a video, that's it.

In this case the overtake was very dangerous: approaching the brow of a hill at night, continuing long past the start of the continuous white line, nearly hitting an oncoming bike.

As I said, I am concerned they could use the GPS speed reading to give me three points, even though it's uncalibrated. I'm hoping someone here is a current or ex copper and knows if this is possible.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 11:15
Tailgating while overtaking - gordonbennet

In this case the overtake was very dangerous: approaching the brow of a hill at night, continuing long past the start of the continuous white line, nearly hitting an oncoming bike.

As I said, I am concerned they could use the GPS speed reading to give me three points, even though it's uncalibrated. I'm hoping someone here is a current or ex copper and knows if this is possible.

Not trying to pick an issue with you, but in your OP you overtook the car following the horse box and then tucked in behind said horse box....now i have no issue with that, because presumably whether the car following was with said box or was one of those who do not overtake anywhere for a number of reasons they left enough room for others to go by in leap frog stages...its entirely possible that from their dash cam it could have looked like you cut them up or it could look like you went to overtake both vehicles and couldn't make it.

I'm not intimating that either of these apply, but actions can look completely different from another's perspective, and will look completely different when viewing after the event, as you found when you realised a motorcycle was in the picture which you hadn't noticed at the time.

So i'm asking you to re-read the above quotes of yours, the driver of the following car could have thought what you did was dangerous, just as what you think the BMW driver did was dangerous, i have no doubt the BMW driver realised his error and wished he hadn't gone for it but was then committed, but this is what happens out on the road, we make mistakes and hopefully learn from them, luckily no one was hurt here, that's the main thing.

Your other quote above, re whether they might look at you as well as the bod your are reporting, well imagine you made a mistake or did something daft and someone was asking the same question, which i'm afraid boils down to, am i shopping myself as well as the other bloke.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 12:00
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif

I made a mistake, there were three cars in front, the lead one towing a horsebox. I first overtook the rear car, and pulled in to a large space behind the second car. It was not safe to overtake the second car. Then a mile or two on I overtook both the second car, and the lead car with the horse box.

My overtake was quite safe, lots of space. No oncoming traffic. However, an overtake is one situation where I don't watch my speedo. In my view I need both eyes on the road ahead.

I have a previous experience of submitting a video of an accident: van overtook car, van emergency braked, car went into van, van drove off, police prosecuted car driver, ignored van driver. The response of the police was perverse, and frankly not reassuring.

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 23:25
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif

I have a previous experience of submitting a video of an accident: van overtook car, van emergency braked, car went into van, van drove off, police prosecuted car driver, ignored van driver. The response of the police was perverse, and frankly not reassuring.

No surprise the police prosecuted the car driver.

Is this because you think the car driver was in the wrong, or because you don’t trust the police?

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 11:45
Tailgating while overtaking - Avant

I agree with GB. Sending dashcam recordings to the police is a bit like overtaking itself - if in doubt, don't.

In this case there is the risk that the police will prosecute the easier, although less appropriate, target - Leif, for being over the speed limit. Best to leave this sort of thing unless your dashcam picks up a criminal act or an obvious piece of dangerous driving.

As so often, the root of these problems is cars too close to each other - not so much tailgating when overtaking (which I agree can be dangerous) as the line of cars being overtaken being too close. Happy Blue would I'm sure have pulled in earlier, on discovering too late that the BMW in front was a gutless 318, if there had been room.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 12:03
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif

I agree with GB. Sending dashcam recordings to the police is a bit like overtaking itself - if in doubt, don't.

In this case there is the risk that the police will prosecute the easier, although less appropriate, target - Leif, for being over the speed limit. Best to leave this sort of thing unless your dashcam picks up a criminal act or an obvious piece of dangerous driving.

As so often, the root of these problems is cars too close to each other - not so much tailgating when overtaking (which I agree can be dangerous) as the line of cars being overtaken being too close. Happy Blue would I'm sure have pulled in earlier, on discovering too late that the BMW in front was a gutless 318, if there had been room.

Nope, in this case there were gigantic gaps between each car. A rare situation indeed!

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 13:02
Tailgating while overtaking - Bilboman

It occurs to me that if pedestrians behaved like drivers there would be rather a lot of punchups in the office canteen queue without the safety zone of a metal box on wheels with lockable doors!
In one of his stand up routines, Ben Elton once asked the audience to imagine that pedestrians behaved like drivers for a day. Parping some kind of horn at others, whipping a torch out and flashing it in their eyes, making the habitual hand gestures and other acts of umbrage and revenge. Hilarious when you think about it!

Edited by Bilboman on 15/02/2019 at 13:03

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 12:39
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif

It occurs to me that if pedestrians behaved like drivers there would be rather a lot of punchups in the office canteen queue without the safety zone of a metal box on wheels with lockable doors!
In one of his stand up routines, Ben Elton once asked the audience to imagine that pedestrians behaved like drivers for a day. Parping some kind of horn at others, whipping a torch out and flashing it in their eyes, making the habitual hand gestures and other acts of umbrage and revenge. Hilarious when you think about it!

I try and remember that a person is driving the other car, and consider their thought processes.If they make a mistake, hooting and gesturing will not help.They probably know they goofed. If someone is a habitual dangerous driver, the kind that leaves no room for error, hooting or flashing lights achieves nothing as they will have an aggressive mindset, and will blame you for not getting out of their way. The Mercedes/BMW driver who lives in the ‘fast lane’ is typical of the aggressive type. A week back I was approaching Farnham on the A31, there were many cars about to join the road just ahead, and it looked a bit dangerous if I carried on. so I moved right to allow them to get on unimpeded. A Mercedes approaching in lane 2 had plenty of time to react to my manoeuvre, just gently lifting his foot off the accelerator would have done it, but he flashed his lights repeatedly in anger at my forcing him to slow by 5-10 mph for 100 m until I could pull back in. I do wonder who these uber important people are.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 14:50
Tailgating while overtaking - Andrew-T
A high end car suggests he’s not thick, so why drive like a dork.

Some of us might think just the opposite ....

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 14:11
Tailgating while overtaking - bazza

Interesting thread this as I have deep concerns about the dash cam proliferation myself. GB, I must congratulate you on your absolutely excellent posts on here, summing up the whole arguments for and against in a most complete and concise way. I agree with every word !

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 18:29
Tailgating while overtaking - gordonbennet

Bazza i am humbled, thankyou for those kind words.

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Sun 17 Feb 2019 09:00
Tailgating while overtaking - Leif
GB comes across as a pleasant likeable and sensible chap, but in this case I’m afraid he’s mistaken.

It was a very clean simple overtake, quite how I could have been acting dangerously is beyond me. Hopefully it will be on You Tube soon. I’m sure you can’t wait. ;)

The police have no powers to seize an SD card in such circumstances. Had there been a serious crime, they could request footage, or even take the card if urgent, but they can’t trawl in the hope of finding minor crimes. Unfortunately some coppers do try to exceed their legal powers so it helps to know your rights.
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Sun 17 Feb 2019 18:07
Tailgating while overtaking - gordonbennet
in this case I’m afraid he’s mistaken. It was a very clean simple overtake, quite how I could have been acting dangerously is beyond me.

er, i didn't say you were acting dangerously, if you re-read my posts you will see that is quite clear.

To re-iterate, any action we take on the road could look very different even from the passenger seat of our own car, and will look completely different from the driver or passenger seat of another car, compounded by the driver of the other car having different ideas of what is reasonable and safe to dodgy or downright dangerous.

You must have seen, as we all have some totally unwarranted reactions from some drivers to someone overtaking, the obvious one being flashing lights like billio when someone is a dot on the horizon overtaking coming the other way, now what if one of the bods you overtook was one of those mimsers who thinks anyone overtaking is a lunatic who should be locked up, and their close cousins the brain dead who actually accelerate to try and keep an overtaker out there, presumably hoping it ends in a head on crash, as i said i have no issue with your description of your overtake which sounds quite reasonable, but someone of a different viewpoint might think differently, and press the red button on his dashcam.

If you recall, you didn't even know about the motorcyclist coming the other way until you viewed the footage, this is what i mean about footage and how it can differ from what is happening at that live moment.

Edited by gordonbennet on 17/02/2019 at 18:09

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