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Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Benet

The Stream, from 2003, has been going beautifuly since we bought it in the Spring including a quite long trip to Europe. But within the last weeks I noticed a burning smell and then the other day there was actually smoke coming from one wheel. So it went to my trusted Indy garage and their verdict is that both front brakes are seized and we need new discs + calipers + pads. Ouch!

I wonder what I could have done, if anything, to have foreseen or prevented this problem.

The car did have full service history and recent MOT when we bought it. Any thoughts?

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - gordonbennet

I doubt they have suddenly seized, they've been gradually getting worse, possibly the sliders seized first so the braking was increasingly by only the 'leading' pads, eventually things got so bad the brakes didn't release at all.

Regular brake maintenance is an ongoing thing, the pads should be removed at least every other year, inspected and then if in good condition everything cleaned and then lubricated as neccessary with the correct (usually red) brake grease on any sliding mechanisms, pins etc, and reassembled.

I also exercise the pistons with the help of an assistant, by removing one pad at a time and getting the assistant to gently operate the brakes pushing the piston out to roughly the distance of the lad backing plate, so a reasonable lever held between the piston and disc as the brake is operated so the piston can be pushed back in...gently..because if you are too hasty it issupposedly possible to flip the seals in the master cylinder with the back pressure....there is a school of thought that you should open the bleed nipple as you push back the piston so fluid doesn't go back into the system, but i've been doing it my way for ever on literally hundreds of vehicles and never yet had a problem.

If when the piston is extended, you carefully lever up the dust seal and see what condition the piston itself is in, if it moves freely and all is well you could wipe a little of that correct grease onto the piston under the seal, and that will also help it have a life as long as the vehicle lasts.

Every few years (depending on mileage and general condition) it makes sense to renew the brake fluid, it attracts moisture anyway so if left in situ for many years you could have a nice moist mixture helping the pistons and calipers to rust from the inside.

Clean up brake pipes and grease as necessary whilst there.

If you have drum inside disc parking brake design, then just as with normal rear drum brakes, the drums must come off at the same time and slave cylinders checked just the same, then pivots and self adjusters checked and cleaned and minimally lubed.

If you have auto adjusting parking brake operating on (normally the rear) calipers using the standard pads these need lubing every year without fail.

I'm not surprised at the calipers seizing this year because we had a serious winter and thousands of tons of rock salt were dumped on the roads, this muck finds its way into everything and has wreaked its havoc on the brakes during the dry spell, i mentioned this issue several times earlier in the year.

Some main dealer service regimes sadly do not include correct brake maintenance, too often their idea is to inspect and then spray brake cleaner in the general direction of the brakes, which handily helps to dry any lubricant some chap might once have used...this IMO is almost a scandal, because if properly serviced (others will have their own views so take what i say with a generous pinch) the brake calipers should last the life of the vehicle, but cheap servicing (an oil change and general look about) helps make new cars look cheap to maintain when they aint, and yes they are cheap to maintain doing the bare minimum during the warranty period, but by the tme warranty is up those 3 to 5 winter salt baths will have done their worst and no preventative maintenance hasn't helped things.

I'm also not sure how thoroughly the usual fast fit joints might service brakes, generally this is a job best left to a trusted indy.

I cover a lot of miles, and one of my little tricks is when on a long motorway run and approaching a suitable service area or uphill layby if dual carriageway, if i can safely allow the speed to drop off meaning i come to halt without touching the brakes until the vehicle is almost stationary, i then go round the vehicle feeling all brakes hubs and tyres for any signs of excess heat, i do this regularly with my lorry in Leigh Delamare M4 MSA and will probably be doing exactly this tomorrow morning (before Gregg's calls to me and bacon roll and latte time it is :-), its a handy way of spotting any dragging brake or overheating bearing issues.

Edited by gordonbennet on 18/09/2018 at 22:57

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Benet

Some main dealer service regimes sadly do not include correct brake maintenance, too often their idea is to inspect and then spray brake cleaner in the general direction of the brakes

Brilliant advice.I suspect no main dealers do all this and very few indies either. This is a a superb example of thorough old school maintenance which so few of us bother with. Even if I don't do all this (and I know I should) I will try feeling for heat after gently rolling to a halt.

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - SLO76
Perfectly normal issue on a car of this age and hardly a catastrophe, just one of the joys of owning an older car. Pay up and move on.
Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Brit_in_Germany

Not always older cars, though. I had a brake seize on a new Accord, caliper and disc replaced under warranty.

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - catsdad
Brakes seem to be a relative Honda weakness. The only company car I ever needed brake pads done on was the Accord and this was well before the 50-60k mileage when the cars were changed. My own 2012 Civic needed pads (rear oddly enough) at three years old and the last MoT cited pads and discs worn at around 55k but they passed it. They measured the discs as the wheels were off and I reckon there was still a year to eighteen months wear left.

If it does need new pads and discs all round the Honda menu price is just under £600. Even just looking online at the parts costs (Honda and pattern) it looks like an expensive job. If it needs calipers as well then it will be even dearer.

When the time comes I am inclined to get a quote from my indie but I am wary of any Honda peculiarites that may make this a false economy. Mention has been made before for example of the Honda self adjusting handbrake that is unusual? Or would any good indie have this covered?

Luckily I intend to keep the car until its about 10 years old/100k so one brake replacement over that lifespan isn't excessive even at Honda prices.
Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Falkirk Bairn

Honda servicing never seems to include a wheels off clean, lubricate etc etc. - a squirt of brake cleaner and a blast from an airhose if you are lucky.

My current CRV is 6 years old - in years 2 & 4 I had my Indie strip & clean - 1 hour labour.

On Monday my car had a majormajor service - dropped off all fluids & replaced all filters. Brakes stripped - new pads on front.

1 hour labour in years 2,4 & 6 is a lot cheaper than stuck calipers, sticking/ uneven wearing pads etc etc

I owned a Mazdo Xedos from 6 mths old till selling at 15 yrs old. No repairs payable in all that time apart from calipers/discs etc + rubber bushes that had perished. Mazda calipers were £100 - £120, then they stopped making them - refurbed calipers then cost £160!! Market forces I suspect.

OP - Cox motor parts (Honda dealer) do Stream discs & pads front & back for £332 inc vat

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Benet

OP - Cox motor parts (Honda dealer) do Stream discs & pads front & back for £332 inc vat

I think I'm paying about that for the parts, or a little more. But it's the labour costs that hurt!

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Falkirk Bairn

My Indie charges £45+ vat per hour = £54

£332 for parts & say 2+ hours is around £450

Assumes the actual calipers are OK - if they require looking at then the time taken could rise considerably.

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Engineer Andy

Does it make any difference on Hondas as to the amount of usage? My Mazda3 (now 12yo) has only suffered from binding brakes when it hasn't been used much, ie. when I've been unemployed or commuting by train, and particularly if those instances occur in the colder, damper winter conditions. Rarely a problem when its warm and dry.

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - Benet

Does it make any difference on Hondas as to the amount of usage?

I wondered this but it has been used every 3-4 days at the least and sometimes daily, particularly when we took it on holiday

Honda Stream - How do brakes suddenly seize? - madf

Brakes seem to be a relative Honda weakness........... When the time comes I am inclined to get a quote from my indie but I am wary of any Honda peculiarites that may make this a false economy. Mention has been made before for example of the Honda self adjusting handbrake that is unusual? .........

I changed front and rear pads on my 6 year old Jazz this year. At 32k miles, all were borderline. It was an easy job and any semi competent individual could do it. The rear disk handbrake is self adjusting and the rear calipers need to be screwed in rather than pushed.. but that is not abnormal... I did of course read the (free) online Honda manual first..And greased all sliders and moving surfaces with non metallic brake grease.

No issues so far (I used Brembo pads - half Honda's price)