Yeah, this was more looking at what the professional reviewer had to say rather than those who had brought them. Obviously then i like to read up on common faults etc, then punters reviews!!

Just made me think, as in some reviews they are like 'we got to test drive the diesel' as in they got a good one to test, so they wrote a better review, then makes you think if they had to beg borrow or steal a car to review it they then might have given it a rubbish review!!

Older members may recall the Road test reviews which "The Motor" and "Autocar" used to do.

These gave comprehensive facts and figures on dimensions, performance, turning circle, speeds per 1000 rpm in gears etc. In those days most drivers (as in the recent post on 'mechanical sympathy') had some understanding of how cars worked and were able to use this data to decide if particular models would suit them, finally test-driving those on the short list.

Most reviews now seem to assign great importance to 'infotainment systems' and 'quality of plastic trim' in accord with the common treatment of cars as white goods, where the buyer is mainly concerned with appearance.

Just to add to that, why does Autoexpress seem to compare everything to a Golf.

Yes its a good car. I get it but is it the best out there at the moment ??

I doubt it. Other car makers have cars that have come a long way

Edited by diddy1234 on 14/08/2018 at 23:36

I suppose its difficult, you have to cram as much extra space into an estate version as possible otherwise the motoring press mark you down, but you then end up with a badly proportioned back with too much weight aft of the rear wheels. So especially in profile all of these Golf sized estates look odd. At least the Golf and Focus have styling cues which identify them as such, a seat could be anything. Leif, I agree VW are getting overly angular.

The trouble if - very few media firms and publications are rich off the subscriptions of its followers - most derive significant revenue from advertising, and with car magazines and websites, that's mainly advertising cars they review, as well as car-related products and a few general ones ralted to their (mainly male) audience.

They ain't going to tick off their biggest advertisers by (often quite rightly) slagging off a rubbish car, or even mildly criticising a reasonable one to any degree. HJ and his colleagues I'm sure are treading a very fine line to get across the realities of owning certain cars whilst still atracting sufficient revenue to keep the website, including this forum, open AND ensure the site pays all their bills and makes a decent profit.

To me, its no wonder that HJ's Agony column in the Telegraph has been shrunk down considerably, no doubt removing many of the emails/his replies that are critical of certain makes/cars (not just for localised problems) for inherrant design/reliability problems, widespread poor customer care and/or poor driving dynamics for expensive cars.

IMHO, most of that newspaper's (which I still pay to subscribe to, despite its significant drop in quality in recent years [not much that's any better onot ridiculously expensive]) car reviews, like (now) the film/TV reviews, are little more than shill pieces for the big players. I've had, on several occasions, quite measured and polite commentary removed by their [IMHO] Thought Police, ahem, I mean 'moderators' for [as many others do] foresically demolishing their so-called 'articles' credibility, helped by the far higher quality of journalism and expertise on this website and forum.

What's also a shame is how many 'owners club' websites (I'm not talking about classic cars - just ordinary ones) have in recent years significantly scaled back their operations, including forums, and so there's a lot less feedback on car ownership apart from sports models and those modded than in the past. Whilst I still appreciate the Mazda3 Forums, it isn't as vibrant as here. 15-20 years ago, there was even a 'Micra Sports Club' site for both modders and ordinary owners to talk about that car!

Ironically, as the Intewei has grown, more control of the narrative has gone back to the Big Names in the media, or to the likes of the Social Media Giants, etc where I can't really trust review content that much - there's a few decent reviewers out there, but its noticeable that they now are starting to struggle, especially now that the big boys are league with people who don't like free speech and are getting many decent content creators demonitised (often just as destructive) or even deplatformed - not just the Alex Joneses of this world.

I agree 99% with Engineer Andy's post above..

And as I read political comments in papers, I see even more of it.. And don't start me on Brexit where both sides lied and exaggerated..and were not held to account by the Press.. Still, chickens come hom to roost eventually and people buy carp cars and vote for politicians who know the moment they open their mouths they are lying.

What amazes me is how those in such lofty positions of power and influence cannot see the 'great reckoning' coming in the (now) very near future due to the lies on top of lies in all aspects of life today. Rather than change and do what's right, they double down in the vain hope that we'll just capitulate through frustration at (previously) getting nowhere with our complaints.

There's only so much BS that society can take, on any issue, as we saw in 2016. What I also find surprising is how amazed they (the Establishment) are when the public does bite back, on both sides of the political spectrum. I have little sympathy for them, whether they be two-faced journos, virtue-signalling politicians, money-grabbing fat cats running faceless corporations, etc. People without honour only deserve our contempt.

Have we strayed from the original topic a bit?

Perhaps, but the 'establishment viewpoint' in many walks of life is still very much in charge, and the motor industry is one of the worst - as all the cover-ups about emissions and now mpg testing has proven, similarly with many in the media IMHO colluding with the manufacturers to paint a rosy picture generally in return for a cushy lifestyle of jaunts and corporate hospitality, as well as lots of ad revenue seemingly (in some cases, IMHO) making false claims whilst problems conveniently get swept under the carpet.

They seem to copy the bad habits and behviour from many different spheres, including politics. And again, as with politics, the powers-that-be may be about to 'reap the whirlwind' of consumer power when many scandals and cover-ups that IMO are still there are found out and eventually make it to the evening news.

I agree 99% with Engineer Andy's post above..

And as I read political comments in papers, I see even more of it.. And don't start me on Brexit where both sides lied and exaggerated..and were not held to account by the Press.. Still, chickens come hom to roost eventually and people buy carp cars and vote for politicians who know the moment they open their mouths they are lying.

I agree. Sadly the press tended to just report the lies from both sides, and only really lay into the Leave arguments. Both needed to be dissected, but it’s hard to do that when for example leading economists are spouting bilge. I suspect most people knew both sides were lying. Well, you know a politician is lying because his/her lips are moving.

People believe politicians because they WANT to believe.

See Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" in 1938 after his negotiations with Hitler. His "piece of paper " was worthless but as most people wanted peace after the carnage of WW1, they supported him. Churchill who continued to warn of Hitler's intentions was highly unpopular.

See also various political promises:

"no more boom or bust" repeated by Gordon Brown every year for a decade in power - ending in the worst economic bust since 1929

"cut net immigration to the tens of thousands " by David Cameron - an obvious impossibility (if the NHS was to keep running) and yet highly popular policy

Edited by madf on 17/08/2018 at 07:51

I will ignore most of your kneee jerk nonsense except to say that Mark Carney, the governer of the Bank of England was warning of apocalypse before the vote, he now says we should do well outside of the EU.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of 'thread drift' but if you're going to start a long discussion about politicians, Brexit etc, it might be better to start a new thread in the general discussion section.

Edited by Avant on 18/08/2018 at 10:45

I prefer reading the owner reviews, you're going to get a more realistic opinion on the whole, from people who live with a car long term and don't have any sponsors to keep happy.