He's shared a few links on here which suggest that while he is paid to drive he is not a professional driver.
I would have classed our next door neighbour as a "professional driver" before he retired. He drove an artic all over Europe for at least 30 years all for the same company.
For 10 years my job required me to drive from base to site within what was known as the Midlands and Wales region. Some days I would spend 6 hours in the car (more in bad traffic and weather) to do 30 minutes work on site. But I was not a professional driver, I was an engineer who need the car to get to jobs.
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Taxi drivers are "professional drivers", but outside London (AFAIK) they don't have any professional training or qualification, or require anything more advanced than an ordinary driving licence.
The standard of driving of most of them around here is poor, certainly not what I would associate with the word "professional" in any other context.
My point is that "professional driver" is a pretty meaningless term.
Edited by FP on 17/07/2018 at 11:28
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My definition of a professional driver, and bear in mind like all people professional or otherwise, there are some who are good at their job and amazingly bad.
Using a car to get to and from work, no matter how long the drive does not make you a professonal, sorry bt it don't,. Using your car as part of your job also does not make you a professional.
The simple question is this, if you didnt need the car to do your job, ie it was within walking distance ( forget about the individual firm ), then could you still do your job / continue your career ? If the answer is no then your are a professional driver ( not automatically a good one ), if the answer is yes then you are. ( again not automatically a good one ) If you could still do your job with someone else doing the driving then you are not a professional driver.
I had a job once driving a doctor around because he had lost his licence, he was not a professional driver because he could still continue his profession and continue to be a doctor, which he did do.
Take a flt, reach truck, barlow high racker etc, all professional driving jobs because if they lost the certificate / licence to operate those machines they would be out of work, if dvla decide to revoke your driving license ( taxi ), or pcv hgv etc then the company could legally sack you, because without that they cannot legally put you out on the road.
Anyway agree or not that is my definition fo a professional driver.
Edited by 30 yr's a Professional Driver on 18/07/2018 at 21:55
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Some non professional drivers are better then those that are supposed to be better, but arnt, I could tell you some stories about some class 1, artic drivers that shouldnot even be allowed to drive a car, much less the biggest vehicles on the road.
But yes I agree with your point.
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So update on the initial story
Despite the evidence of the video he has not admitted liability, but his insurance company has, and mine agrees that he is 100 % to blame.
So it has been looked at and the quote to get it repaired has come in at 1700 / 1800 pounds, the car was only valued at a grand, so it is what they call as beyond economical recovery, I am waiting for official confirmation of this by my own insurance, but I am hoping his insurers will agree to pay it, plus the cost of a hire car.
I am not holding my breath. This car was bought 2nd hand after the dealer selling it had put in a new engine, on the fist mot I put it through it had 4 majors and 7 minors, but after getting the majors done it got through, in the last mot ( 3 weeks ago ), it only failed on frosty headlamps ( dont know what the proper term is ), and the steering rod that goes straight up from the wheel bearing, £ 250 for new parts and 2 hours labour, halfords gave it the 2nd years mot at my hands ( had it for about 3 years, it came with 12 mths mot ), it went through with only 3 minors, so thanks to this idiot that is 2 years work, ruined in a matter of minutes.
What annoys me more then anything is that this idiot is too old to be driving and should be forced to give up driving if he is not willing to do it voluntarily, he is not the only geriatric causing havoc on our roads, I hope that one day there is cut off time when you are deemed too old to drive, and the license is automatically cancelled when you reach a certain age, which was really the point of me posting this in the first place.
Edited by 30 yr's a Professional Driver on 18/07/2018 at 22:12
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What annoys me more then anything is that this idiot is too old to be driving and should be forced to give up driving if he is not willing to do it voluntarily, he is not the only geriatric causing havoc on our roads, I hope that one day there is cut off time when you are deemed too old to drive, and the license is automatically cancelled when you reach a certain age, which was really the point of me posting this in the first place.
IAM Roadsmart offer 'elderly driver assessment' tests for those aged 70+, usually carried out by ex- or serving Traffic cops. I would recommend this to those old enough to qualify.
Not expensive, I think it was about £25 when I took it a few years ago. (I then took and passed the IAM advanced driving test).
It is completely stupid to fix an arbitrary age when driving should stop, some people ought to stop aged 25 or 30, others are perfectly safe and capable in their 80s.
Insurance company actuaries and the resulting age-related premiums support this view.
There are some older drivers who I agree should give up, there are far more younger and middle-aged idiots in Audis, Mercs, Golfs, MPVs and white vans who tend to have more serious accidents, because they drive faster.
By the way, at what age will you yourself give up driving, I'd really like to know?
Edited by galileo on 19/07/2018 at 00:03
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"What annoys me more then anything is that this idiot is too old to be driving and should be forced to give up driving if he is not willing to do it voluntarily, he is not the only geriatric causing havoc on our roads, I hope that one day there is cut off time when you are deemed too old to drive, and the license is automatically cancelled when you reach a certain age, which was really the point of me posting this in the first place."
I thought the point of your posting was about deafness. Now it seems to be about age.
Surely if someone is competetent to drive they should be allowed to do so. We could have a long discussion about how that should be managed, but it's as irrational to say someone should have their licence cancelled at a certain age as to say redheads or women shouldn't be allowed to drive.
"The Department for Transport (DfT) says there is no evidence older drivers are more likely to cause an accident, and it has no plans to restrict licensing or mandate extra training on the basis of age.” (www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24204489)
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The simple question is this, if you didnt need the car to do your job, ie it was within walking distance ( forget about the individual firm ), then could you still do your job / continue your career ? If the answer is no then your are a professional driver
What does that mean? To me its nonsense.
Most of my jobs did need me to have a car so the answer would be NO
No job I had was within walking distance so the answere would be NO
Without a car I would have been unable to do my job so the answer is again NO
So according to the above quote I would have been a professional driver.
But earlier in the post the OP says
Using your car as part of your job also does not make you a professional.
So which is it, I accnot be both.
And as I said above I did not consider myselft a professional driver.
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Ironically ... and very sadly, an elderly friend died last week after being struck by a car (driven by a 76 yr old woman - so not the same driver) ... in the same car park in Totton.
I agree with the comments that age alone shouldn't be a bar to holding a licence - speaking from personal experience when I've come close to having an accident (mea culpa!), the issue is one of inattention rather than visual / hearing impairment or old age,
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A very recent experience (reminiscent of the incident the OP is concerned about) of a near-miss underlines the irrelevance of age.
Two days ago, in the built-up area a few dozen metres from my home, in bright daylight, I was approaching a junction on my left at around 25 mph. The road was empty apart from a car heading towards me. When we were about four or five metres apart, and with no warning whatsoever, it started to turn across me into the side-road. I hit the brakes hard in an emergency stop and felt the ABS kick in. At the last minute, when collision seemed inevitable, the other driver wrenched the steering-wheel, managed to get back on the correct side of the road and stopped.
There was no apparent reason why this should have happened. The other driver was a young woman, was not using a hand-held phone, didn't seem to be talking (so probably not on hands-free), was not smoking and there was no-one else in her car. She was looking ahead the whole time.
How did she fail to see a bright red SUV with DRLs?
Edited by FP on 20/07/2018 at 13:59
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How did she fail to see a bright red SUV with DRLs?
This might explain some of the reason. Apologise it is a very long article and mainly about collisions at junctions but I feel some relevance
https://scienceofbeingseen.wordpress.com/
Pleased that you avoided a collision
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This might explain some of the reason. Apologise it is a very long article and mainly about collisions at junctions but I feel some relevance
https://scienceofbeingseen.wordpress.com/
Pleased that you avoided a collision
Looked but didn't see is a common theme in accident reports across all modes of transport. Part of the Driver Improvement/Speed Awareness course I attended was an explanation that human eye/brain work like a TV and scan so many times a second - events can happen in the scan's blind period.
It's also possible to 'lose' vehicles behind your windscreen pillars. Notice this most on continent approaching roundabouts where left side A pillar can hide a vehicle on the roundabout butsimilar is possible with right pillar in UK if you're distracted/unwary.
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Nice to see the professional driver brake checking another professional.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pINq2Z_WkZM&feature=sh...e
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I believe this was the incident which was discussed at great length in another post a while back. (January of this year.)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=122326
Edited by FP on 24/07/2018 at 10:44
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I believe this was the incident which was discussed at great length in another post a while back. (January of this year.)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=122326
This link and another one around making a horlicks of joining at a slip road illustrate precisely why I question the OP's right to call himself a professional.
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Negative to that mate RTC only happened about 4-6 weeks ago, so could not have been discussed in Jan unless someone had esp
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Anyone noticed how our friend picks up minor or completely irrelevant points, and completely ignores the larger issues raised by other posters - in this thread as well as the January one?
Edited by FP on 28/07/2018 at 19:29
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I believe this was the incident which was discussed at great length in another post a while back. (January of this year.)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=122326
This link and another one around making a horlicks of joining at a slip road illustrate precisely why I question the OP's right to call himself a professional.
Professional means simply that one is paid to do something. No more, no less. My father was a sales manager and drove all over the world to meet clients. He called himself a professional driver. But he had no specific training. And he was the most frightening driver I’ve known. A class 1 police driver is perhaps the top of the tree, a white van driver the bottom, no specific training, no regulation, and all too often the wrong attitude. But both can call themselves professional drivers, as driving is a core skill in their job. An equally abused term is the word engineer ...
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A better term is vocational driver, ie where driving is a major part of how you make a living and you are expected to do it competently, and yes you should be better than those who don't cover the miles, but classing oneself as a professional is a bit blowing one's own trumpet, not exactly the done thing and you leave yourself open to major criticism when the results prove you are anything but professional.
This applies to many sectors industries and govts, where behaviour and competence fall far short of what is sometimes self claimed promised or expected.
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Not heard that expression before but it would be more appropriate.
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My experience is that deaf drievrs are actually more observant than "hearing" drivers - especially those who turn up the volume on their radio/CD/MP3 players to setting 50.
One I knew was actually able to diagnose engine problems purely through vibrations.
And my favourite deaf driver? Dame Evelyn Glennie - if you've never listened to her play her msic, then you'll never understand a deaf persons abilities. (Note: I say ABILITIES, not DISabiliities.
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