HJ Answer PCP

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
What do you think of Elon Musk? Have your say | No thanks
View Threaded
Thu 22 Feb 2018 23:21
HJ Answer PCP - KJP 123

Recent Question on HJ. Do you agree with answer?

An elderly relative has owned a car for one year of a three year purchase agreement. During this year he has been diagnosed with dementia and is not capable of driving. The car is stored off road and the keys are locked away. I am a family member, but not the registered keeper and have no financial or other responsibility for the car or the purchase agreement. The registered owner does not wish to return the car and end the purchase agreement, however, no insurer will offer cover to a dementia sufferer whose licence has not been renewed by DVLA. Is there any advice you can give me?

Answered by Tim Kelly

You can only do anything with the consent of the owner. You would either have to get them to agree to getting rid of it, or prove they are not of "sound mind" and were not of a state to have agreed to the contract in the first place. Contact the lease company and advise the vehicle has been mis-sold due to this. They should be concerned enough to cancel the agreement. I fully understand the predicament you are in. You need to speak to a solicitor to empower you to handle your relatives affairs and authorise you as your relative's appointed representative. You can also raise a complaint with the Finance Company, then the FOS (ombudsman).

First it supposes that questioner is the person that the relative would want to handle affairs but that is a minor point. Its, “Contact the lease company and advise the vehicle has been mis-sold due to this. They should be concerned enough to cancel the agreement.” Is this fair?

At point of sale the purchaser may have shown no signs of any health problems. What should be asked anyway? I am unaware of a stroke that will stop my driving in 6 months’ time.

It seems to be suggesting trying to coerce a financial company that has done no wrong.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Feb 2018 09:23
HJ Answer PCP - skidpan

Several points to make.

During this year he has been diagnosed with dementia and is not capable of driving.

The dementia must have been very severe for the driver to loose the licence immediately. My dad was diagnosed in early 2013 and was allowed to carry on driving until late 2015. A friends dad carried on driving with DVLA approval for much longer than that.

prove they are not of "sound mind" and were not of a state to have agreed to the contract in the first place. Contact the lease company and advise the vehicle has been mis-sold due to this.

If there had been no diagnosis at the time the vehicle was sold there is no way you could argue the car had been mis-sold.

But what happens if the car is uninsurred and goes up in smoke. There may be a clause in the PCP agreement that requires the user to keep fully comp insurance during the agreement period and if so this is being breeched.

I appreciate its difficult but a familly member really needs to sit down with the driver and sort it. Other than that it off to the Court of Protection to get an order in place

Getting a Power of Attouney in place early prevents these types of problem.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Feb 2018 10:58
HJ Answer PCP - Fernando P

It is quite easy for a Lasting Power of Attorney ( LPA) to be obtained on line with assistance from a reasonably competent helper who is IT literate. Much the same level of skill is required as to complete a tax return on line. The statutory cost is £82, it takes some 2 months to be processed and if the "donor" is able to sign the form and a witness can certify that the donor understood (even briefly) what he/she was doing, then DIY should not be a problem. An important point is to send off all the pages including most blank pages as they have to be certified.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Feb 2018 11:14
HJ Answer PCP - skidpan

I obtained LPA's for my parents with no issues at all. You must follow the instructions to the letter otherwise the form will be returned with NO refund.

Also be aware that there are seperate LPA's for Heath/welfare and Financial and to be full covered you need both.

But once a person is diagnosed with, for example Alzheimers the Court of Protection method is the only way to take control.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Feb 2018 17:06
HJ Answer PCP - ExA35Owner

There is an important point about LPAs: they have to be obtained before the donor loses their capacity. Once someone loses capacity, they can't make an LPA and the procedure is via the Court of Protection. This costs quite a bit. Getting LPAs in place is a good idea while still compos mentis.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 23 Feb 2018 17:36
HJ Answer PCP - skidpan

There is an important point about LPAs: they have to be obtained before the donor loses their capacity. Once someone loses capacity, they can't make an LPA and the procedure is via the Court of Protection. This costs quite a bit. Getting LPAs in place is a good idea while still compos mentis.

Thought I was dreaming but I wasn't, I did writw this in ,my last post.

But once a person is diagnosed with, for example Alzheimers the Court of Protection method is the only way to take control.

Does no one read anymore.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 24 Feb 2018 14:47
HJ Answer PCP - Bromptonaut

Thought I was dreaming but I wasn't, I did writw this in ,my last post.

But once a person is diagnosed with, for example Alzheimers the Court of Protection method is the only way to take control.

Does no one read anymore.

POssibly they replied directly to Fernando D.

While it's probably true that transitory understanding of purpose of LPA is sufficient an application made after capacity is already failing is very risky. Particularly so if there is even the remotest possibility of family conflict.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 24/02/2018 at 14:51

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 24 Feb 2018 13:44
HJ Answer PCP - Palcouk

If the individual has lost the mental capacity there are still options, the fee £400 can in some cases be offset, depending on circumstances.

www.gov.uk/oneoff-decision-personal-welfare/how-to...y

You should be able as a concerned party/reletave be able to insure the car, if for nothing else than fire/theft, you would need to go though a insurance broker (I used to ensure on this basis, a 'laid up policy')

Edited by Palcouk on 24/02/2018 at 13:47

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 24 Feb 2018 20:00
HJ Answer PCP - KJP 123

Apart from skidpan everyone seems to have missed the real point of my post.

It was is it fair to suggest threatening (and I think that is the right word to use) the lease company with mis-selling when they likely had no knowledge and no way to suspect a health problem such as dementia.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 24 Feb 2018 21:01
HJ Answer PCP - Brit_in_Germany

I'm not sure it is mis-selling but if the person was not fit mentally to enter into the contract, there are probably ways of arguing that it is void.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 24 Feb 2018 21:40
HJ Answer PCP - FiestaOwner

I don't think the finance company has done anything wrong either. They would have had no way of knowing of his medical condition, especially as it hadn't been diagnosed when the agreement was taken out.

Even if it was diagnosed before signing the agreement, would the finance company have had any way to find out, if the elderly relative hadn't disclosed his condition?

Edited by FiestaOwner on 24/02/2018 at 21:41

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 16 Mar 2018 17:39
HJ Answer PCP - concrete

The finance company was obviously not and probably still isn't aware that your relative has dementia. Therefore it has nothing to fear from the mis-selling claim. Instead of threats it is usually more productive to simply approach them with the truth. A letter stating the facts and a doctors diagnosis should do the trick. They cannot be unsympathetic to a situation which probably arises more often than you imagine. I would bet that upon learning the sad circumstances of your relative they would be willing to terminate the contract. This may mean a small exit fee, but that is better than two more years of monthly payments.

Good luck. Cheers Concrete

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

We give you the low down on how to save on insurance, little-known tricks and tips, what insurance groups mean and how to use insurance aggregators to beat insurers.

Insurance group finder and how to save on insurance