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@ GTD 184
That's a terrible customer experience after spending so much money with them.
Can all posters please stop referring to these and some other cars as "Premium cars", because thay are not.
They use to be many years ago. Now I would say they are on the same level as British Leyland, but just a lot more expensive.
"expensive r-----h" springs to mind.
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Slightly surprised that after the experience with the other VAG car anyone would spend £44000 on another one.
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Slightly surprised that after the experience with the other VAG car anyone would spend £44000 on another one.
Interesting, but not surprising. One can't extrapolate reliability from the experience with one car, and reputations carry weight. If one has the perception of a reliable brand then one experience can be considered unlucky, rather than a trend.
It works the other way too. I worked once for an retailer with a poor reputation for service. Some research showed conclusively that a majority of respondents considered our service poor, but 90%+ of them had actually had good service on their last visit. We did some discussion groups to dig a bit deeper, and we found that a good experience did not change people's opinions very much. They just thought they had been lucky!
I'm just surprised that it is possible to spend £44,000 on a Tiguan.
Edited by Manatee on 21/12/2017 at 16:05
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Slightly surprised that after the experience with the other VAG car anyone would spend £44000 on another one.
Interesting, but not surprising. One can't extrapolate reliability from the experience with one car, and reputations carry weight. If one has the perception of a reliable brand then one experience can be considered unlucky, rather than a trend.
It works the other way too. I worked once for an retailer with a poor reputation for service. Some research showed conclusively that a majority of respondents considered our service poor, but 90%+ of them had actually had good service on their last visit. We did some discussion groups to dig a bit deeper, and we found that a good experience did not change people's opinions very much. They just thought they had been lucky!
I'm just surprised that it is possible to spend £44,000 on a Tiguan.
Sadly the 'snob factor' in buying German cars still exists, whereby many people (including members of my own family) have, in my opinion, defied reason and a wealth of evidence showing that they aren't anywhere near the best in terms of engineering quality and reliability and bought them anyway.
I'm always staggered as to why someone would buy another car (especially the same model) from a make/model that, in my view, has suffered so many problems and regularly does badly in terms of customer care. Oh well.
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Sadly the 'snob factor' in buying German cars still exists, whereby many people (including members of my own family) have, in my opinion, defied reason and a wealth of evidence showing that they aren't anywhere near the best in terms of engineering quality and reliability and bought them anyway.
Never had a DSG but we've had a few VAG cars over the years 1984 Polo (from new for 19 years 140k miles), 1990 Passat td (for 5 years from 1996 , 200 k miles whe sold ), 2001 1.4 Octavia (from new - still owned now 125k miles), 2003 Skoda Superb pd(for 10 years from 2005 160k miles when sold) and 2014 Superb tsi (from 2015 - still owned). Other than normal GOOD servicing (never long intervals!) - very few problems .
Might be that I'm lucky or I'm fussy about servicing / maintenance these days but in the past I used to have Fords, Vauxalls, a Datsun 100A , Austins (Allegro, Maestro) , Morris Marina and a Saab. All had pretty bad issues (including new engines) except for a MK II Astra and a Saab 9000cs (my favorite car of all time)
Edited by Big John on 21/12/2017 at 21:42
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Might be that I'm lucky or I'm fussy about servicing / maintenance these days but in the past I used to have Fords, Vauxalls, a Datsun 100A , Austins (Allegro, Maestro) , Morris Marina and a Saab. All had pretty bad issues (including new engines) except for a MK II Astra and a Saab 9000cs (my favorite car of all time)
You have been lucky to run a 1984 Polo that didn't disintegrate through rust after ten minutes, they were otherwise pretty good, so basically you bought a couple of VW cars back in the 80s and 90s when they were still decent robust simple cars and then some subsequent Škodas which tend to be built around tried and tested VAG tech with some of the gimmicks stripped away - but built properly in the Czech Republic. I must say (Porsche aside) if someone held a gun to my head and forced me to buy a VAG car it would have a Škoda badge.
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My neighbours went for a test drive in an Approved used skoda fabia. It broke down driving off the forecourt.
went elsewhere and bought a kia. (after asking me and doing some research)
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To GTD 184, I can't quite believe you have managed to get yourself into this position, with 2 very expensive DSG cars on your drive ,both with serious faults! What a fantastic advert for VW-not! I would be tempted to try and go public with this one, it makes an interesting story for the local newspaper and also the journals such as "What Car" or "Auto Express", who might be able to help, but I have no direct experience of that. But I do know, from completely unrelated experience that businesses absolutely fear bad publicity and this is your stick to beat them with. If you don't wish to persue that route, you need legal representation and an estimate of the cost of that versus the hit you'll take by trading your car in against another make. The equity (or debt!) you have will put you into some very nice Japanese SUVs, where you will find a much improved customer service to what you've been used to. But be prepared to have your VWs marked down and the faults priced into the deal, which is only fair. PLenty of information on this site as to what specifically to purchase. There is no need to spend anything like what you have to own a decent vehicle without faults and good after-care/warranty etc.
Edited by bazza on 22/12/2017 at 10:01
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To GTD 184, I can't quite believe you have managed to get yourself into this position, with 2 very expensive DSG cars on your drive, both with serious faults! What a fantastic advert for VW-not! I would be tempted to try and go public with this one, it makes an interesting story for the local newspaper and also the journals such as "What Car" or "Auto Express", who might be able to help, but I have no direct experience of that. But I do know, from completely unrelated experience that businesses absolutely fear bad publicity and this is your stick to beat them with. If you don't wish to persue that route, you need legal representation and an estimate of the cost of that versus the hit you'll take by trading your car in against another make. The equity (or debt!) you have will put you into some very nice Japanese SUVs, where you will find a much improved customer service to what you've been used to. But be prepared to have your VWs marked down and the faults priced into the deal, which is only fair. PLenty of information on this site as to what specifically to purchase. There is no need to spend anything like what you have to own a decent vehicle without faults and good after-care/warranty etc.
Unfortunately, it was not my intention to purchase 2 defective cars be those purchases 3 years apart. However, as anyone who has been in this most unfortunate situation will understand consumer law is rarely on the side of the consumer because of how the law is interpreted, especially where car purchases are in dispute. My Golf had a common DSG issue which due to time constraints I was unable to reject. With regards to my wife’s Tiguan again, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 stipulates that a car can only be rejected within the first 30 days. Given that the issue with my wife’s Tiguan was not reported until after the 30 day cut off and given that the dealer and manufacturer have denied that there is a defect with my wife’s car the only redress we have is via the Motor Ombudsman or costly litigation.
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What a fantastic advert for VW-not! I would be tempted to try and go public with this one, it makes an interesting story for the local newspaper and also the journals such as "What Car" or "Auto Express", who might be able to help, but I have no direct experience of that. But I do know, from completely unrelated experience that businesses absolutely fear bad publicity and this is your stick to beat them with.
About twenty or thirty years ago a group of disgruntled Canadian Ford owners formed the Rusty Ford Club and held meetings outside the main dealers on Saturday mornings. The press and TV were invited. After a few well publicised meetings Ford decided to assist them.
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Its an idea Bazza, but i'm none too sure if some makers are in the least bothered about bad publicity, they can still sell as many of the things they make so why should they.
Short warranties, dismal lists of really quite serious and expensive problems on forums and in good/bad guides, dealers that apparently are not interested if what we read is typical, reported denial or pleading ignorance of regular almost economic scapping issues with solutions seemingly dependant on how much the customer jumps up and down, if repeat buyers maybe more inclined to get fixed i don't know?
Dieselgate, though hardly alone in that, nor some of the above issues and some Japanese makers arn't blameless here with their own serious issues too (eg certain Diesels self destructing, maker apparently not interested), and none of this matters because people insist on buying the things, and even when they've had their fingers badly burned they go straight back for more of the same.
Victor Meldrew, in character, in one of the OFITG programs commented after one general election (i suspect this was adlib and they left it in), it went roughly thus:- 'i still can't believe the result of the election, it's like letting a man eating shark teach your kids to swim, even though it bit the baby's head off last time we'll still give it another chance'', now whilst i wouldn't have agreed with the actor's own personal politics, that does seem quite apt here.
Edited by gordonbennet on 22/12/2017 at 10:50
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Its an idea Bazza, but i'm none too sure if some makers are in the least bothered about bad publicity, they can still sell as many of the things they make so why should they.
Short warranties, dismal lists of really quite serious and expensive problems on forums and in good/bad guides, dealers that apparently are not interested if what we read is typical, reported denial or pleading ignorance of regular almost economic scapping issues with solutions seemingly dependant on how much the customer jumps up and down, if repeat buyers maybe more inclined to get fixed i don't know?
Dieselgate, though hardly alone in that, nor some of the above issues and some Japanese makers arn't blameless here with their own serious issues too (eg certain Diesels self destructing, maker apparently not interested), and none of this matters because people insist on buying the things.
My thoughts exactly!....could not of put it better!
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"I'm just surprised that it is possible to spend £44,000 on a Tiguan."
Go check the RRP! It is possible to configure a Tiguan nudging £50K!
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Yeas, you're into a battle of wits and legal proceedings with the Tiguan which might drag on for ages and even then you may nor have a satisfactory outcome. I would offload both to be honest, as life is too short to have an inaminate object such as a faulty car(s) drag you down. It's only transport at the end of the day. Trade them both in and get yourself a couple of Honda/Toyota/Mazda petrols, of whatever shape you desire and put it down to experience. You don't even need to buy new, a used main dealer car a year or 2 old will save you a fortune and serve just as well. Stick to petrol (although the Honda i-dtec is apprently excellent) for increased reliability. Good luck and wish you better motoring luck in 2018!
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I am not worried about the GTD as my PCP term is due to expire in a few months. The Tiguan is a different prospect And I intend fighting this dispute until such time I have to accept defeat.
In responding to your comments regarding choosing a Honda,Toyota/Mazda. My research over the years and personal experience of Honda confirms that they are not completely without their problems and offering poor customer service. Its down to a matter of personal choice like most things in life.
The problem most of the time is consumer law and its interpretation is not transparent enough, it nearly always appears to be on the side of big business, because the onus is on the customer to prove a defect exisists.
I have to confess that the drivetrain noise that afflicts my wife's Tiguan is a common problem apparently across most VAG cars, although the demonstrator we drove and my Golf GTD does not exhibit any noise.
Credit where credit is due, on the whole my wife's Tiguan has been pretty much of a high standard of assembly, there are no squeaks, rattles or electronic issues, so its a shame that VW cannot sort out the NVH issues with their drivetrains!
Many thanks for your comments
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I don’t think I said that problems with the Mecatronic unit are trivial. I said that the problems reported on the Audi forum seemed to be mainly with that unit.
I know that Mecatronic units are expensive to replace but I didn’t know quite what is inside them, so I’m grateful for the explanation.
One other point: somebody said upthread that allowing creep with the DSG gearbox promotes wear of the clutches. Is that right.? I’ve tried to get a straight answer from my dealer to that question and all I get is vague reassurances that it’s unlikely to have that effect. Another source said that Audi are bound to have thought of that and built in some protective mechanism. Ha!
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IOne other point: somebody said upthread that allowing creep with the DSG gearbox promotes wear of the clutches. Is that right.? I’ve tried to get a straight answer from my dealer to that question and all I get is vague reassurances that it’s unlikely to have that effect. Another source said that Audi are bound to have thought of that and built in some protective mechanism. Ha!
There is no other way to provide creep than clutch slip. Yes the programming is designed to manage it; if the clutchpack gets too hot the gearbox will shut down; if the footbrake is touched then the clutch opens. First gear is pretty low so the clutch can in theory enage fully at quite a low speed, although I have noticed that ours is likely to change to second very easily if it "thinks" the car is being accelerated - I usually knock it into manual, 1st gear, for any manoeuvring.
I don't like reversing it into the drive as it is quite fiddly in our case - it's quite possible I am being overly cautious of course.
The programming has almost certainly been tweaked many times to minimise problems and improve driveability, but there is inevitably some trade-off between the two.
If ours is left in D with the handbrake on (we don't do that), it continues to tug against the brake. It does back off after a few seconds, presumably in the interestes of self-preservation.
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Currently advertiesd in a well known publication, & they still want 8K for it........
"
Audi Q7 3.0 TDI S Line Quattro 5drPAN ROOF,FACELIFT,GEARBOXFAULT"
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fairly sure Q7 doesn’t have the dsg?
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fairly sure Q7 doesn’t have the dsg?
You may be right - certainly they are currently 'tiptronic' (Audi-speak for planetary/TC).
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Currently advertiesd in a well known publication, & they still want 8K for it........
"
Audi Q7 3.0 TDI S Line Quattro 5drPAN ROOF,FACELIFT,GEARBOXFAULT"
You conveniently omitted to say that the vehicle has 126,000 miles on the clock and that the same model/spec of that year could be advertised for anything up to £15,000.
Something of a pointless post that proves nothing, I feel.
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Currently advertiesd in a well known publication, & they still want 8K for it........
"
Audi Q7 3.0 TDI S Line Quattro 5drPAN ROOF,FACELIFT,GEARBOXFAULT"
You conveniently omitted to say that the vehicle has 126,000 miles on the clock and that the same model/spec of that year could be advertised for anything up to £15,000.
Something of a pointless post that proves nothing, I feel.
Rather sums up CK91437's contributions to this forum quite nicely.
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I believe the problems experienced with VW group products and in particular auto boxes is a bi product of Deiselgate. They are having to find 16 Billion $ for the US alone, which means it will have been taken from the following areas
1 Customer service
2 Engineering R & D in particular Applications Engineering
I am aware that the various A/T were put on the market without the normal level of testing. It is a pity as VW group Auto's used to be both fuel efficient and reliable.
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I believe the problems experienced with VW group products and in particular auto boxes is a bi product of Deiselgate.
There were major problems with DSG gearboxes long before dieselgate. I remember the day this came out in the press - I was in the middle of Germany at the time (September 2015)
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I believe the problems experienced with VW group products and in particular auto boxes is a bi product of Deiselgate.
There were major problems with DSG gearboxes long before dieselgate. I remember the day this came out in the press - I was in the middle of Germany at the time (September 2015)
They've had problems with the auto gearboxes for longer than that. There doesn't seem any will to fix the issue.
I'm convinced it's deliberate de-engineering to reduce the longevity of the car.
A bit like rusty mercedes.
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I believe the problems experienced with VW group products and in particular auto boxes is a bi product of Deiselgate. They are having to find 16 Billion $ for the US alone, which means it will have been taken from the following areas
1 Customer service
2 Engineering R & D in particular Applications Engineering
I am aware that the various A/T were put on the market without the normal level of testing. It is a pity as VW group Auto's used to be both fuel efficient and reliable.
It's just taken me TWO CLICKS of the mouse to see, straight away, with no extensive digging or searching required, cases of DSG reliablity dated 2008. I couldn't be bothered to look for any more instances. How much thinking went in to the above post?
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I believe the problems experienced with VW group products and in particular auto boxes is a bi product of Deiselgate. They are having to find 16 Billion $ for the US alone, which means it will have been taken from the following areas
1 Customer service
2 Engineering R & D in particular Applications Engineering
I am aware that the various A/T were put on the market without the normal level of testing. It is a pity as VW group Auto's used to be both fuel efficient and reliable.
Been an ongoing problem since very soon after their introduction. I remember well a good friend of mine being landed a £6,000 bill to replace the ruined DSG box in his 2003 Audi TT 3.2 at less than 60,000 miles and 5yrs old. They’re overcomplex and no manufacturer that’s dabbled with them has managed to make them work properly.
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Not a new thing, my neighbour bought a 60k 100CC auto estate, the first one boasting class leading aerodynamics, nice enough car.
Amazed you'll be but in short order the auto box died, and his warranty he discovered only covered the first £200 of the £1600 bill to fix it, i had pleaded with him not to trade in his (newer) Nissan Bluebird 2.0 litre Hatch which he'd had from new, and was, as most here would expect, completely bomb proof.
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For that sort of money I would be getting myself a Lexus. Oodles of kit, very reliable and their customer service would poke themselves in the eye if it made you happy.
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If Audi VW group showed confidence in their product by extending the warranty on the automatic gearbox to 8 to 10 yeaars, I would have confiendce in buying one.
But they haven't
So that means no sale, as I shall not be buying one.
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If Audi VW group showed confidence in their product by extending the warranty on the automatic gearbox to 8 to 10 yeaars, I would have confiendce in buying one.
But they haven't
So that means no sale, as I shall not be buying one.
To be fair though you probably won't be buying anything as you seem to dislike most makes! LOL Who would you recommend?
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If Audi VW group showed confidence in their product by extending the warranty on the automatic gearbox to 8 to 10 yeaars, I would have confiendce in buying one.
But they haven't
So that means no sale, as I shall not be buying one.
To be fair though you probably won't be buying anything as you seem to dislike most makes! LOL Who would you recommend?
Indeed.
I don't like buying expensive rubbish, if that's what you mean.
lol
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To be fair though you probably won't be buying anything as you seem to dislike most makes! LOL Who would you recommend?
Indeed.
I don't like buying expensive rubbish, if that's what you mean.
lol
Who woudl you recommend? You seem to have something negative to say about many makes but have not said who you do like.
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To be fair though you probably won't be buying anything as you seem to dislike most makes! LOL Who would you recommend?
This actually is a major problem. There are very few options out there which do not have some problem. Dodgy diesels, DSG boxes, electric parking brakes, no spare wheel. My station wagon really should be replaced in the next few years but it is hard to see anything which doesn't have some problem.
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