Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon?

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Wed 25 Oct 2017 17:47
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Alison Muir

We bought the above car used in 2015, not knowing that the degas hoses were inadequate. (Ford recalled the Focus cars with the same parts, but not the CMAX models despite them being essentially the same!). Our degas hose failed this August, leading to the engine 'fully overheating, the cylinder head warping and the piston bores being internally damaged' (Ford garage report). After complaining to Ford CRC they have fully funded a replacement engine - good. However since then, the car has broken down twice and spent 16 of last 24 days off the road, with the garage eventually finding a melted electical component which was interfering with the spark plugs.

My question is this: after such a severe overheating incident, and the subsequent disruption of taking out and replacing the engine, is my car now what we might call a 'lemon' - ie significantly less reliable than a car that hasn't been through all that. Or should I feel confident that it is fixed and fine?

I only have two breakdown calls left on my insurance and have already spent £900 on hire cars so far while waiting for it to be fixed so want to decide quickly what to do next.

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Wed 25 Oct 2017 18:48
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - RobJP

Best bet : give it a month, wait and see.

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Wed 25 Oct 2017 19:13
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - SLO76
All too often cars become liabilities after major surgery like this. I'd offload it in favour of something more reliable if funds allow.

The trade are aware of this engines reliability issues but as yet the public are largely ignorant of it and are still happy to buy but with the large scale of problems this may eventually change and prices will collapse. Flog it while it still has some value.
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Wed 25 Oct 2017 21:05
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Wackyracer

I would suggest joining the facebook page for this, you should not have had to pay for a hire cars. The woman who started the facebook group will be able to give the best advice as she is constantly in contact with Ford.

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Thu 26 Oct 2017 11:19
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Alison Muir

Wackyracer, I have joined the facebook group - indeed that's how I got the repair paid for, but had absolutely no luck getting a courtesy car despite frequent requests from myself and Louise. Ford CRC were adamant that it was up to the dealership if they had one available, and the dealership just said they didn't...

I've seen all the stories on that page of people having further problems, but wanted to get some perspective from a more general group. Of course the most avid contributors to the Facebook group will be those that have had the worst problems, so maybe that gives a disproportionate view of the risks.

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Thu 26 Oct 2017 11:33
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Wackyracer

I've seen all the stories on that page of people having further problems, but wanted to get some perspective from a more general group. Of course the most avid contributors to the Facebook group will be those that have had the worst problems, so maybe that gives a disproportionate view of the risks.

My personal advice would be to sell it and buy one of the cars in SLO's list in the first post on this thread www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=121085

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Thu 26 Oct 2017 11:49
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - gordonbennet

I'll second that, now its running well replace it before the thing gives you more grief.

Could anyone imagine the furore if this was a Toyota (especially) problem, it would be all over the internet and what passes for newspapers.

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Thu 26 Oct 2017 11:58
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Alison Muir

Yes. Looking at Honda Jazz, or Toyota Yaris as options. Am hoping I can go back to the dealer who sold us the CMAX, and get him to be generous in exchange as I believe he sold us a fundamentally flawed car at the outset (sold it to us after Ford had begun the degas recall on the Focus models). Just need to know how strong my arguments are that: a) the degas hose on the CMax was pretty much the same as the degas hose on the Focus, and b) now that the damage has been done the car is fundamentally less reliable so he needs to exchange it rather than just say 'it's fixed now, what are you complaining about?'

We'll see!

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Fri 27 Oct 2017 19:24
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - JONATHAN_11_80

Hi, If the car has had a new engine fitted by Ford and the updated degas hose has been fitted the car should be perfect now. You mention the car has broken down since the new engine has been fitted what exactly were the issues. I see no reason why a car that's had a new engine fitted correctly by a main dealer should be anymore troublesome than any other car. Fitting a cam belt is considered major surgery.

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Fri 27 Oct 2017 20:14
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - FP

To quote one of our most knowledgeable posters above:

"The trade are aware of this engines reliability issues but as yet the public are largely ignorant of it and are still happy to buy but with the large scale of problems this may eventually change and prices will collapse. Flog it while it still has some value."

The problem is not so much that the car has had a new engine (presumably fitted correctly) - the problem is that the engine has basic reliability issues due to its design. Hence the advice to get rid of it.

Edited by FP on 27/10/2017 at 20:14

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Fri 27 Oct 2017 21:45
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Wackyracer

I see no reason why a car that's had a new engine fitted correctly by a main dealer should be anymore troublesome than any other car.

On the Facebook group there are people who are now on their second (and some third!) replacement engine. So I think that speaks volumes for the unreliability of this engine.

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Sat 28 Oct 2017 08:03
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - JONATHAN_11_80

If you Google or Facebook any car you will find lot of issues across all brands. This engine failed due to coolant hose failure any alloy engine would suffer serious damage in this scenario. The fact remains the issue has been repaired and ford coughed up for a new engine. I know of many 1.0 Ford's which have had no issues but the degas pipe has been updated.

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Sat 28 Oct 2017 10:40
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - FP

You seem to feel the 1.0 Ecoboost is no less reliable than other engines - that's what seems to come out of your postings in this thread.

SLO has a lot of experience across a range of cars and I would take his advice seriously. And there's a hell of a lot of dissatisifed people on the internet, even allowing for the fact that more people summon up the energy to complain than to praise something.

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Wed 1 Nov 2017 10:14
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - JONATHAN_11_80

I am entitled to my opinion FP. We have cars with this engine in our family and all have been fine. One has had the degas hose replaced under Ford's recall the other are newer engines.

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Wed 1 Nov 2017 10:28
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - FP

"I am entitled to my opinion FP."

Of course you are. I just felt that you were flying in the face of a lot of contrary views. I also understand you don't want to think any of your cars with this engine is going to fail.

The OP, on the other hand, has had their confidence well and truly shaken, and I can understand that too.

I know what I think, but it doesn't really matter because I don't intend ever to buy a car with that particular engine.

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Sat 28 Oct 2017 11:08
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Wackyracer

If you Google or Facebook any car you will find lot of issues across all brands. This engine failed due to coolant hose failure any alloy engine would suffer serious damage in this scenario. The fact remains the issue has been repaired and ford coughed up for a new engine. I know of many 1.0 Ford's which have had no issues but the degas pipe has been updated.

So how do you explain that the engines that were replaced by Ford dealerships and had the new degas hose fitted still failed?

If the sales side of the motor trade have no faith in this engine why should the owner of one of the cars? unless they are delusional.

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Wed 1 Nov 2017 10:19
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - JONATHAN_11_80

I've seen some cases online about engine failure due to the failed degas pipe and ford have been paying out if the car has ford service history. Where online does it say these engine failed after having the updated degas pipe fitted.

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Sat 28 Oct 2017 20:30
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Alison Muir

Hi, If the car has had a new engine fitted by Ford and the updated degas hose has been fitted the car should be perfect now. You mention the car has broken down since the new engine has been fitted what exactly were the issues. I see no reason why a car that's had a new engine fitted correctly by a main dealer should be anymore troublesome than any other car. Fitting a cam belt is considered major surgery.

Hi Jonathan, five days after new engine fitted it cut out as I was slowing down to enter work car park and wouldn't restart. Recovered to dealership who said it was something electrcial and they had managed to reset it and it seemd fine again (sorry, I think they were as vague as that to me!). Five days after that it wouldn't accelerate, first in reverse, then lower gears and then wouldn't start at all. Recovered again, took ten days this time for them to find a burned/melted electical component connected to the spark plugs. They said this explained both breakdowns and all would now be well.

Is currently running fine (one week on).

My question is - if the heat of the original overheating was sufficient to melt that electrical component, what else might it have damaged, that might just rear its head over the next weeks/months? My car is only 4 years old, had hoped to drive it for a decade, but now wonder...

I am aware of all those on facebook posting about further problems and overheating issues not even related to the degas hose. To be honest we will get rid of ours as we just don't feel safe in it any more. But I hoped a forum like this might give me an idea of whether our doublts are reasonable and proportionate, or whether the Facebook group (which naturally mostly draws peole who are have serious problems) has slanted our view.

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Sat 28 Oct 2017 21:40
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - bazza

it's difficult to say whether you are over-worrying. Most of us on here would probably say that you are right to have doubts and in the same situation I certainly would be part-exing for something else. Many people have been very badly stung financially by this engine out of warranty. I would strongly recommending listening to SLO who's an expert contributor on here. If you post what you're looking at in the general Discussion area, you'll get a pool of opinion back to help you make an informed choice. A good current thread on there is Salesman's perfect car, lots of info on there.

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Sat 28 Oct 2017 21:47
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - FP

If you feel uncomfortable with the car and can afford to move on, then I think you should do so. You have clearly lost confidence in the replacement engine.

There are plenty of alternatives.

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Sun 29 Oct 2017 13:59
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - madf

.

My question is - if the heat of the original overheating was sufficient to melt that electrical component, what else might it have damaged, that might just rear its head over the next weeks/months? My car is only 4 years old, had hoped to drive it for a decade, but now wonder...

I am aware of all those on facebook posting about further problems and overheating issues not even related to the degas hose. To be honest we will get rid of ours as we just don't feel safe in it any more. But I hoped a forum like this might give me an idea of whether our doublts are reasonable and proportionate, or whether the Facebook group (which naturally mostly draws peole who are have serious problems) has slanted our view.

If you keep the car, you will no doubt find out.

It suggests to me they gave you an engine bare of all ancillaries and swapped them all over to teh new engine (to save cost ). Bit short sighted as engine coilsetc don't take kindly to excess heat..

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Tue 31 Oct 2017 16:16
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Tony Goodall

Mine went at the weekend

Booked in to Ford garage on Thursday, after mechanic mate looked at it

Out of Warranty but bought from Ford Dealer in January

What are chances of Ford accepting liability and replacing?

63 plate 1.0 Focus Ecoboost 100BHP

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Tue 31 Oct 2017 18:12
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - madf

Mine went at the weekend

Booked in to Ford garage on Thursday, after mechanic mate looked at it

Out of Warranty but bought from Ford Dealer in January

What are chances of Ford accepting liability and replacing?

63 plate 1.0 Focus Ecoboost 100BHP

Not fit for purpose when sold?

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Tue 31 Oct 2017 18:58
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Tony Goodall

I've looked at FB group on this and hoping to argue the case on Thursday when it's booked in at the dealer

Car still driving but Coolant empties daily.

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Wed 1 Nov 2017 12:33
Ford CMax 1.0 Ecoboost 2013 reg - overheating and engine replacement = lemon? - Tony Goodall

Looks like I'm going to be OK

Ford should fix at their cost

I have RAC cover so can get it towed on that.

Courtesy Car for whole period of fix.

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