What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
B Max - Gearbox - argybargy

Just a bit of info, really ,that I’ve gathered recently through experience . It might just be useful to someone else.

For those who don’t know, I have the B Max with the (occasionally) infamous Powershift gearbox. There are various fixes available for this box, the first on the list being software updates and “clutch relearning”, whatever the Hell that is. There’s some doubt as to whether this is an electronic or mechanical problem, but Ford will ultimately replace control modules and clutches if cheaper fixes don’t work.

Anyhow, point is this. The manufacturer’s standard warranty is 3 years. Because of the problems with the Powershift box, Ford extended the warranty on the gearbox to five years in the UK, 7 years in the US and Australia (maybe they complain more effectively). I asked a question on here about having this work done and there was a suggestion that Ford wouldn’t honour the warranty on a car which had been serviced outside the Ford dealer network. Not necessarily the case, fortunately. Ford will authorise gearbox warranty work on cars which have not been serviced by themselves outside the three years, but this seems to be on a case by case basis. I'm told that sometimes they ask the dealer for details of service history before authorising, sometimes not. Clearly if a non Ford specialist has already worked on the gearbox, and it then developed a problem that required a warranty claim, that would be a different matter altogether.

I might currently be alone on this forum in owning one of these cars, but in case anyone else logs onto HJ and has a question about the Powershift, the above might be useful.

This gearbox is no longer fitted to Ford cars, so obviously this issue will eventually become a historical one, and the responsibility of those owners who keep their cars beyond five years.

B Max - Gearbox - KB.

Useful info, ta.

You've said the box is no longer fitted to Fords ... can you say what is?

My (somewhat vague) understanding is that there has been a re-introduction of torque converter boxes to some new Fords - but I c an't remember which. Also I further gathered that the wet clutch Powershift was a lot less troublesome compared to the dry (much the same as VAG's DSG in that regard) but that you only get the wet one in bigger models (and I personally want one of their smaller models).

Obviously no-one can be unaware that Ford have had major issues over many years with Powershift. It has to be said I can't figure out why someone as big as Ford (and someone as big as VAG) have taken so long to sort out the problems with their respective dual clutch transmissions.

Your advice above will help some, but not others... but it's added information which should be noted ... thank you. However I still don't know how confident I am to order a new Ford with a dry clutch Powershift transmission. At least if you get a KIa or Hyundai with similar transmissions they come with a longer warranty from the start and, hopefully, it's less of a lottery if one went wrong. But I have noted in the past that Ford's extended warranty (to 5 yrs) is inexpensive, as is their extended servicing offer.

The introduction of Fiesta Active will, no doubt, see the demise of B Max. Something I'll look at when it arrives, along with the raft of other new small upright(ish) 5 door small hatchbacks. Having said that, I see that most of these hatchbacks on stilts aren't very much taller than their donor model... at least my Yeti is reasonably tall compared to, say, a Fabia ... which, for me is a major bonus.

Life goes on.......

B Max - Gearbox - argybargy

Glad my post was of some interest.

I'm pretty sure mine is the wet clutch Powershift, and although the various fixes involve software updates and tweaks/ replacements to the transmission control module, my own suspicion is that contamination of the clutch surfaces due to failing seals is the reason for the judder.

I read somewhere that in the early days of the problem Ford had shelves packed with faulty clutch packs, and when customers came to them with warranty claims due to gearbox issues they were swapping their old faulty clutches for new faulty clutches because they had to clear the shelves of all that stock before restocking with the re-engineered, non-faulty versions.

Mine is exhibiting some of the Powershift issues, and having already had the software "fixes" will be going in, probably for a new clutch, within the next few weeks. Whatever happens after that, I'll be cutting my losses and getting shut before the Ford warranty runs out next June.

B Max - Gearbox - KB.

Is there no suggestion that Ford will offer any sort of extension to the warranty?

I was told, unofficially, by a technician/mechanic at my local dealer, that VAG would very likely still offer some sort of "goodwill" if the replacement clutch pack failed ... but that sounds like a long shot to me after 6 or seven years, even though it's been VAG serviced locally from new.

I'm still unsure what (if any) small/medium Fords have actually dropped the twin clutch in favour of torque converter. I am told, by someone who works at Fords Technical Centre at Dunton, that Ford will move over to torque converter given how dissatisfied the Americanm market is with Powershift . The new Transit has already done so.

EDIT. You have said your box isn't fitted to Fords any more ... but not said what has replaced it. Also it seems you're not absolutely sure whether it's a wet or dry clutch in your car. Can you expand a bit? I thought wet ones went into bigger vehicles (due to the ability to handle higher power outputs) and dry ones intop small vehicles for obvious reasons.

Edited by KB. on 20/09/2017 at 22:15

B Max - Gearbox - argybargy

The warranty on the gearbox has been extended to five years in the UK, seven in the US and Oz and, so I read somewhere, nine years in Brazil, which seems extraordinary.

As to whether its a wet or dry clutch, I can't find out for sure, but I need to contact Ford later so will ask. Someone asked HJ the same question in March last year and even he didn't know at the time, so I'm in good company. Like you, I've heard that Ford will go back to torque converter boxes after the Powershift debacle, but I'm no expert so cannot really say.

Other than the clutch the car is just fine. Firm ride, although we got used to that in our Focus, massive loading room in the back due to the sliding doors and consequent removal of the B pillar and of course a decent Zetec engine. Real shame that the gearbox can, depending it seems on wind direction, alternate between butter smooth and "bag of spanners".

Edit: I asked Ford's service department whether its a wet or dry clutch on their Powershift and they couldn't tell me. Perhaps somebody else here knows?

Edited by argybargy on 21/09/2017 at 10:56

B Max - Gearbox - badbusdriver

Not 100% sure if your clutch is wet or dry. But going by what i have read on this forum, certainly regarding VAG products, the wet clutch type seem to be for bigger engines with lots of torque, such as a turbo diesel. But no real idea where the 'changeover point' would be. I'm fairly sure that with petrol VAG engines, up to at least the 1.4tsi, use the dry clutch version. So i would assume, unless i found out for sure otherwise, your B-Max also has the dry clutch.

Once you get shot of it, i would urge you to have a look at and test drive of a jazz CVT. We have had ours for nearly 5 months now and are very happy with it. In terms of space, i think it would be the equal of the B-Max, even though it doesn't have the groovy door setup. It's ride is also considered by some to be a bit firm, but i find it a good compromise between comfort and control (it is very sure footed and agile when you need to press on!).

B Max - Gearbox - KB.

All the above noted ... ta.

Like others I would have "assumed" it to be dry and was fairly convinced the wet was for bigger vehicles. The fella at Dunton just confirmed to me that Fiesta and Focus will be torque converter (the Focus already is for a couple of it's petrols - it's a 6 speed and he said it's made by Ford) ..and the new Fiesta to follow suit. As I probably said, the Transit van is to be torque converter.

Edited by KB. on 21/09/2017 at 14:11

B Max - Gearbox - argybargy

The balance of probabilities as you both outline it seems to indicate that yes, the Powershift as fitted to smaller engined cars is dry clutch. So thanks for that.

BBD, the Jazz was recommended to me on this forum (possibly by yourself) before I bought the B Max, the rest being history. Since purchasing this car I do seem to encounter examples of the Jazz on a regular basis, so maybe there's something psychological going on, and perhaps the only way to lance that particular boil is to buy one.

I'm only sorry that poor old Skidpan, who so vehemently warned me against the Powershift and small autos in general, no longer seems to be around to contribute any further pearls of wisdom to this discussion.

Edited by argybargy on 21/09/2017 at 14:57

B Max - Gearbox - SLO76
I recommend a Civic auto. You wanted a better ride quality than your Focus and frankly the Mk II Jazz wasn't thus suitable and while the Mk III is much better it was outwith the budget you gave us. You're a hard man to please (wanting a soft riding small auto that would be reliable) but sadly I think you've made a mistake buying against recommendations on here. No one has managed to get these automated manual boxes to work properly in the long run and most firms are now veering away from them. Keep it maintained by Ford and offload as soon as that g/box is out of warranty. Sadly you'll take a hit as the trade are fully aware of the problems with this box and value them accordingly in part-ex.
B Max - Gearbox - expat

>>Obviously no-one can be unaware that Ford have had major issues over many years with >>Powershift. It has to be said I can't figure out why someone as big as Ford (and someone >>as big as VAG) have taken so long to sort out the problems with their respective dual clutch >>transmissions.

Are they actually manufactured by Ford or VAG? A lot of that sort of stuff comes from a 3rd party. Rumour has it that a lot of DSG boxes are made by Getrag. It would be interesting to know who are responsible for these heaps of rubbish.

B Max - Gearbox - KB.

I believe, quite strongly, that VAG make their own and Getrag make them for Ford. But, as mentoned yesterday, I'm told, by a reliable source at Ford's Technical Centre in Essex, that Ford will make the forthcoming torque converter boxes in the Fiesta/Focus.

B Max - Gearbox - argybargy

You're quite right, KB: Getrag make the Powershift gearboxes.

I looked Getrag up and as I suspected, its a German company, though it has plants all over the show. Given that the Germans generally know how to put mechanical things together, its surprising that this gearbox has turned out to be so troublesome.

Perhaps the issue is failings of quality control at Getrag plants which are not based in Germany, rather than the design of the thing itself.

B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
Thank you for your comments in here. I was planning on buying a late 2016 Mondeo 2.0TDi with a wet powershift clutch (180bhp) variant. However, based on the comments here I’ll look elsewhere as I wanted to buy something reliable and reasonable to run. However, if For are moving away from this technology then that will have an impact on the vehicles longevity.

Shame as it was a nice looking car, well spec’d and at a very reasonable price.
B Max - Gearbox - Avant

If you're sure it's a wet clutch it may well be all right. I don't know about Fords, but VW Group wet-clutch DSGs have a much better reputation than the dry-clutch variety.

B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
Looking at the available literature it’s the MPS6 Transmission willI believe is the wet variety. It gets a better reputation than the dry, but Ford aren’t moving away from the 6 Speed Powershift drives without a reason.

Only point if encouragement is that the Car is on sale with a Ford main drawer so it comes with a 2 year warranty as standard. Other option is to buy it and try to get a few on an extended warranty if that exists for used cars.
B Max - Gearbox - SLO76
Nice big car to drive but failure rates on Ford’s Powershift boxes are terrible, even higher than VAG’s unreliable DSG box. Even if you do buy and keep it under warranty when you come to sell dealers tend to hammer them because they know only too well that a costly failure is likely lurking plus I believe most warranty firms now charge dealers double premium on VW and ford dual clutch equipped cars. Not sure if this has filtered through to retail buyers of such policies but most non-manufacturer policies aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on anyway.

Edited by SLO76 on 29/12/2018 at 13:14

B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
Thanks SLO76 that settles it. Time to move on to something else, shame but just not worth the risk.
B Max - Gearbox - SLO76
How many miles are you expecting to cover in a year? Do you need a diesel?
B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
At the moment I do about 15,000 miles a year, however from Sept 2020 I’ll probably be doing less than 5,000.

I need something big (currently drive a Hyundai Santa Fe - whilst I love it, the running costs are high and it’s proved very unreliable), and have naturally gone towards a diesel. I’d happily consider a petrol but only ever see Diesel versions.

Edited by Neil David on 29/12/2018 at 14:44

B Max - Gearbox - RT
At the moment I do about 15,000 miles a year, however from Sept 2020 I’ll probably be doing less than 5,000. I need something big (currently drive a Hyundai Santa Fe - whilst I love it, the running costs are high and it’s proved very unreliable), and have naturally gone towards a diesel. I’d happily consider a petrol but only ever see Diesel versions.

I believe the present (new) Santa Fe is available with a petrol but the last decade has been diesel only for the UK.

B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
Unfortunately I’m in the position where I bought the Hyundai with a personal loan and I still have £14,000 left to pay. So I’m looking at a part-ex and ideally no more than £1k cash.

That rules out a new Santa Fe and petrol options that are relatively young and with low mileage is difficult to find and I don’t want to compromise too much in terms of mileage as I want something to last the next ten years (in light of the planned drop in travel - Office is relocating next to a train station and parking is extortionate).
B Max - Gearbox - SLO76
Have you had the Hyundai valued as a part exchange? If all you want to add is £1,000 that won’t cover the dealers profit and the vat so you’ll be driving away in a car that’s worth less than what you have now and it’s unlikely you’ll get strong money for it. Go view a few cars and get a few prices then look at webuyanycar and other selling services to get a better price then go shopping without a part ex. You need to know its value to give you an accurate budget.

Your mileage suggests diesel but with the widening gap between petrol and diesel fuel prices and the turn against diesel it’s probably best going petrol and accepting the marginally higher tax and fuel costs. Depending on how much money you have I’d be keen on a Mazda 6 2.0 Skyactiv auto. It’s a nice drive and there’s no real mechanical vices to worry about.
B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
Webuyanycar offered me £14,176 for my car and the garage offered me £13,000 trade in. So the garage was I suspect maintaining their profit margin. Will have a look at the Mazda but suspect it’s outside my price range.
B Max - Gearbox - SLO76
They’re quite affordable but automatic models with petrol engines are relatively rare. The diesels are known for a number of problems so I’d stick with the petrol.

Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20181121261...3

B Max - Gearbox - Neil David
Thank you, I’ll take a look. Failing that I’ll just look for a TDI Mondeo in a Manila configuration.
B Max - Gearbox - Kayleigh Cooper

I have a 2015 Focus petrol 1.6 powershift which has developed a juddering slipping problem.

I took it to Ford, and they have said I need a new gearbox and clutch pack at a cost of £3500.

I have read on this forum that Ford extended the warranty to 5 years on the gearbox because of the number of problems with the powershift.

Can anyone tell me where I can find proof of this so I can show this to Ford as they say it is out of warranty.

Thanks Kay