Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic?

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 11:44
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Avant

It might be helpful - thinking particularly of Sorceress who is looking for a small automatic - if we knew which cars have torque-converter autos or CVT (generally reliable) and which have semi-automatics (jerky, unreliable or both). SLO will know this I'm sure, but all views welcome!

From what I know, Volvos, BMWs, Mercedes, Mazdas, JLRs, Kias, Hyundais and most other big cars have TQ autos, and newer Hondas have CVT. Only the biggest Audis have CVT, otherwise it's DSG throughout the VW Group.

Fords and Toyotas seem to vary - so which have TQ autos and which have Powershift and MMI respectively? And is it only smaller Vauxhalls which have that dreadful Easytronic jerkbox?

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 11:58
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - skidpan

From what I know...... Kias, Hyundais......have TQ autos

The current Ceed 1.6 CRDI has a 7 speed DCT

The Sportage uses a 7 speed DCT in the 1.6 petrol turbo and 1.7 diesel but I think its a 6 speed TC auto in the 2 litre diesel

Presume the Hyundai clones use the same boxes.

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 12:12
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - RT

Kias are the clones of Hyundai, with cross-shareholdings enforced by the South Korea government when Kia went bust

Like many brands, Hyundai/Kia use both DCTs and TC autoboxes - depending on model and engine - typically DCTs for lower torque and TC for higher torque but the threshold varies widely.

It's getting increasingly difficult to get an engine below the 2.0 4-cylinder level with TC box.

DCT isn't universal across the VW Group - each brand, doing it's own thing with bigger engines still using TC

Edited by RT on 19/07/2017 at 12:15

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 12:59
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - SLO76
Car firms have experimented with all sorts of automated transmissions over the years but no one has managed to perfect the automatic manual box as yet, even the mighty VAG. Too much to cover going over every firm and model but superminis and middle sized family hatches I tend to flog are thus.

Mazda have shied away from it, instead used conventional boxes in the 2 & 3 until the current Skyactiv-Drive automatic transmission which has six gears, a short torque converter and a clutch integrated with the torque converter. It's more efficient than a traditional torque converter box but is smoother (and hopefully more reliable) than single or twin clutch automated manual boxes. I've more faith in this set up than VW's DSG or Ford's Powershift which the firm had access to but rejected.

Kia and Hyundai also have stuck with conventional torque converter boxes, opting to improve their efficiency than ditch it for a flawed automated manual or CVT. These should prove robust.

Honda used an excellent torque converter box on the Civic til 2005 then used the horrid i-shift automated manual, this was ditched for a conventional box in the later gen cars from 2012 but now the latest one uses a CVT which should be reliable if oil changes are adhered to.

Ford used a horrid CVT box in Fiesta and Escort in the 90's but later Focus and Fiesta's used the same 4sp'd box as used by Mazda until the rather unreliable Powershift automated manual box took over. I wouldn't touch one of these.

Toyota have moved to CVT's which to their credit they've done well with. They're very robust and although not suited to enthusiastic driving they're good on fuel and I've never encountered a problem with one. They did experiment with automated manuals too with the Multimode transmission (MMT) in the Aygo,Yaris and Auris and again they couldn't make it work. Avoid anything with it fitted.

Most larger prestige metal use conventional boxes as the losses from the torque converter are less noticeable to the performance and economy of a large engine but Toyota do use CVT's in most Lexus models. Audi don't shine with glory regarding autos even on larger models, it's widely regarded as the weak link in their prestige models.





Edited by SLO76 on 19/07/2017 at 13:06

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 14:08
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Gary T

Just to claify on Lexus in the UK, only the hybrids are e-cvt (which isn't really cvt in the normal sense). All their petrol autos are traditional torque converters.

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 14:27
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Stanb Sevento

Im no expert in this but have driven a few and it stikes me that small light cars are not great with automatics of any kind, a big heavy car with a big engine seem to pull it off much better. A sports car with an automatic to me is a contradiction in terms.

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 15:08
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - SLO76

Just to claify on Lexus in the UK, only the hybrids are e-cvt (which isn't really cvt in the normal sense). All their petrol autos are traditional torque converters.

Right enough. I had heard the IS250 was a CVT but seems I'm wrong. They do use a torque converter box other than hybrids which do still respond as a normal CVT in that they jump to maximum revs whenever you jump on the go pedal.
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Wed 19 Jul 2017 17:39
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Gary T

Yes, I used to have a Mk2 IS250, it had a six speed torque converter auto. For some reason some motoring webs sites said they were cvt but none were.

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 19:28
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Manatee

Only the biggest Audis have CVT, otherwise it's DSG throughout the VW Group.

In the world of Audi IIRC, DSG = S-tronic, CVT = multitronic, and fluid torque converter type = tiptronic. Multitronic was discontinued a cpouple of years ago. Tiptronic is till used on a couple of models with bigger engines, but DSG/S-tronic is the rule.

Edited by Manatee on 19/07/2017 at 19:28

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 21:07
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Cluedo
Just to contribute, Subaru always use CVTs now and I rate them as they have built in stepped gears as well (I think it's done electronically) but it does work well, is very smooth and you can drop a couple of cogs (or is that belt positions) manually if required.
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Wed 19 Jul 2017 21:11
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - John Boy

Recently I made a list of small cars with torque convertor gearboxes for a neighbour who'd become exasperated with the MMT gearbox in a Toyota Auris. He was only interested in used cars. It went as follows:

Ford Fiesta (2008–2013)

Hyundai i10 (2008–2014)

Hyundai i10 (2014–)

Hyundai i20 (2009–2015)

Hyundai i20 (2015–)

Hyundai ix20 (2010–)

KIA Picanto (2004–2011)

KIA Picanto (2011–)

KIA Rio (2005–2011)

KIA Rio (2011–)

KIA Venga (2010–)

Mazda 2 (2007–2015)

Suzuki Splash / Vauxhall Agila B (2008-2014)

Suzuki Swift (2005–2010)

Suzuki Swift (2010–2017)

Edited by John Boy on 19/07/2017 at 21:12

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Wed 19 Jul 2017 22:20
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Falkirk Bairn

Newest Ford Kugas -they have replaced the Powershift autos with a TQ!!

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Thu 20 Jul 2017 00:22
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - Avant

Thank you so much everybody - I knew there'd be a good response to that.

Personally I wouldn't want an automatic with any engine under 1 litres - just not enough zing for my taste - but I think we're getting quite a few queries from people who are only licensed to drive automatics, or may be disabled in some way, or perhaps only ever drive in town.

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Thu 20 Jul 2017 08:31
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - colinh

"Kia and Hyundai also have stuck with conventional torque converter boxes, opting to improve their efficiency than ditch it for a flawed automated manual or CVT. These should prove robust. "

Hyundai/Kia have opted for dual-clutch boxes for their recent models (e.g., new i30/cee'd) and hybrids (Ioniq/Niro)

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Thu 20 Jul 2017 09:33
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - skidpan

Before SLO wrote

Kia and Hyundai also have stuck with conventional torque converter boxes, opting to improve their efficiency than ditch it for a flawed automated manual or CVT. These should prove robust.

I posted

The current Ceed 1.6 CRDI has a 7 speed DCT

The Sportage uses a 7 speed DCT in the 1.6 petrol turbo and 1.7 diesel but I think its a 6 speed TC auto in the 2 litre diesel

That has been the case with the Ceed since the current model launced in 2012 and caused quite a bit of upset on the forum with one member getting banned for his rather abusive posts to owners who liked the new boxes.

Now colinh has confirmed this

Hyundai/Kia have opted for dual-clutch boxes for their recent models (e.g., new i30/cee'd) and hybrids (Ioniq/Niro)

so do not go buying a new/newish Kia/Hyundai and think you are getting a torque converter.

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Thu 20 Jul 2017 14:40
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - SLO76
Ah well, seems I'm not up to date on the latest autos either. Surprised at Kia and Hyundai though, they're usually good with sticking to tried and tested technology. Looks like they're off the recommended list too. Thanks for the corrections chaps.

Edited by SLO76 on 20/07/2017 at 14:42

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Thu 20 Jul 2017 13:13
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - concrete

Thank you so much everybody - I knew there'd be a good response to that.

Personally I wouldn't want an automatic with any engine under 1 litres - just not enough zing for my taste - but I think we're getting quite a few queries from people who are only licensed to drive automatics, or may be disabled in some way, or perhaps only ever drive in town.

Hello All, back from the trip to Europe and all is well. My XC60 is an automatic with a TC 8 speed box. It tows like a dream. Very smooth and efficient. Over 3000 miles in total and it returned an average of 31mpg. Not bad for well laden car and a caravan. My first auto for some years and I am hooked. Can't speak for the CVT, DSG etc etc but the TC box with a decent engine is excellent.

Cheers Concrete

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Thu 20 Jul 2017 15:35
Fords and Toyotas - which type of automatic? - expat

I am in Australia. 85% of new cars sold here are automatics and that percentage is increasing every year. Many models are only available with autos. Lots of people have auto only licences so companies buy auto cars for their fleets. It is getting hard to sell secondhand manual cars.

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