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More of a problem is rusting suspension components, poor quality brittle plastics fitted externally, and poor quality wire in looms (insulation that goes stiff/brittle/cracks and then fails).
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If I recall correctly, HY stated that, at least for the earler versions, the MX-5 was designed to last only 7 years and not for our 'salty' environment (people living near the cost, or dealing with annual road salting in winter) - you have to wonder how they dealt with the same in Japan, which presumably has MX-5 owners living near the coast or in areas that get snow in winter).
My Mazda3 has been fine thus far, though it appears some other mk1s have not been so lucky. My previous car, a K11 Nissan Micra (96N reg) had failed its MOT at 10yo due to rust around the seatbelt mounting point, which again, appears to be quite common in cars generally, as that point is often around weak points near corners of door openings or wheel arches. The front cross-member was also getting corroded quite a lot at the time as well.
I'd pay good money for a car that has really good long-term corrosion resistance (better than galvanising) generally in addition to great reliability, including that of the exhaust system. Not sure if I'd go for an underbody car treatment, especially if it was expensive and possibly restricted access for servicing/maintenance to certain items.
Far better for cars to last a long time and just get replacement parts for wear-and tear, but of course that doesn't suit the manufacturers who need constant churn of sales, nor governments, who want all the extra tax revenue from car sales, and who seem to think that a 'throw-away' society is far better than a -make-do-and-mend' one because new stuff is always more efficient/environmentally-friendly. They conveniently forget all the costs (monetarily [including fuel costs] and to the environment) of:
- Mining the raw materials to make whole vehicles rather than a few spares;
- Manufacturing/haulage/storage/marketing costs of the same;
- Recycling/scrapping/binning whole vehicles rather than individual parts.
There's no good reason why cars, like PCs, can't be 'upgraded' for an amount of time whilst keeping the same structure and some components: some could be deliberatly over-engineered to both last a very long time and be capable of taking additional loads if required.
If vehicles were made so that the vast majority of parts could be very easily replaced (e.g. light bulbs, external belts, pumps [big issue for me - my car's PS pump may need replacement, and its location means the labour cost will be at least 5x as much as the part]), then that would go some way to help. Doubt it will happen though - too many vested interests who want to keep the status quo. Its probably why car companies are headed up by accountants and other financial people rather than engineers.
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Many thanks for these helpful and well informed posts. I have posted many times how much I appreciate and value people taking the time and trouble to post. I will continue to appreciate and value.
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Despite some people believing rust is a thing of the past, its still rearing its ugly head.
It doesn't matter to the increasing number of motorists in this country who treat their cars like white goods, use them don't care for them and replace them when they fail on something need a bit f costly maintenance or start to look too tatty.
And that is the problem, because there is so little demand for reasonably simple quality vehicles that last years and years, its not a business model for many makers, you can buy such vehicles, Toyota until last year still made the 70 series Landcruiser that had been in production for some 30 years, simple durable and rugged, but no demand here in Britain for anything like that, it was the height of anti fashion so who apart from a few oddsods like me would buy one.
People don't want to care for their vehicles, too many can't be bothered to check the oil let alone rinse the salt off a few times in the winter and then clean it properly underbody around April.
Good point about suspension component rust, again no one's bothered, by the time a car is 5 years old its regarded as too old for the new car buying public to be seen in, and with our rocket ship depreciation it could be argued that unless you plan to keep it long term yourself why would anyone bother to make the vehicle last, and to add to that why would anyone pay the premium the quality vehicle would cost when its not the new car buyer who'se going to reap the benefit.
Its a throwaway society, white goods, clothes, cars, lovers husbands and wives, no longer shiny new or providing the right kudos, out you go.
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I'd pay good money for a car that has really good long-term corrosion resistance (better than galvanising) generally in addition to great reliability, including that of the exhaust system.
So would a lot of other people who prefer to 'buy the best and make it last'. I am surprised no-one makes a smaller all-aluminium car than my nearly 11yr old Audi A8 which I bought nicely run-in at 8yrs/49,000m old and intend to keep indefinitely.
SWMBO's 16yr old Ford Focus, our well-engineered run-about is probably still only on the road thanks to my triennial underbody servicing; derusting and painting suspension bits, door bottom edges and greasing brake pipes, things a garage so-called 'service' would never do.
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SWMBO's 16yr old Ford Focus, our well-engineered run-about is probably still only on the road thanks to my triennial underbody servicing; derusting and painting suspension bits, door bottom edges and greasing brake pipes, things a garage so-called 'service' would never do.
Our 2003 Yaris D4d is still running fine, bodily 100% no rust and original exhaust system. Undercoated at rear with Dinitrol/Waxoyl and brake pipes also in 2006 - and occasionally touched up..
Never touched doors.
I repaint exhaust every 3-4 years...still perfect..
Washed every 8-10 weeks looks as new. Alloy wheels have flaking paint - well known issue..
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Yes - sadly it is a throw away society which appears to worship the god of growth in production. Produce - produce - produce.
More energy should be focussed on making better quality rather than inferior limited life design.
Let's dream of a car produced for function rather than image and made to last.
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There have been functional designs Scot.
Volvo 1 2 7 and 9 series, especially the estates for their all purpose practicality are one such and many still out there in superb condition, and arguably S60 and V70's whilst not in the same simple durable mould are good long termers so long as looked after, we won't see their like again.
Buyers are fashion following animals, the 3 box design is now old hat and the modern car buyer wants all the electronics and toys, and IMHO take this NCAP rating lark too much at face value not helped by 5th gear style staged crash tests.
Many makers came up with their best long life designs in the 80's and 90's IMHO, some of which still made up to about 2005, i suggest that many of the cars made in this sweet spot will still, providing they have been looked after, be giving good reliable service long after their replacements have been scrapped through being uneconomic to fix what should have been fairly simple problems made horrendously difficult...eg parking brake cost to refurb £200 tops on a normal car, could be 5 to 8 times that to fully refurb an electric parking brake, and lets not even think about hell's own automated manual gearbox or DPF.
This cost to fix thing is odd too, so many people only look at their car for its selling or write off price, which isn't how vehicles should be viewed, a known reliable car might only be worth £800 to sell and if it costs £400 to fix a major problem will often be passed on and a new £299 a month cloned eurobox takes its place, but that £400 might well have bought another 2 years reliable use for the cost of 6 weeks or so of leasing/PCP payments.
My problem is that an increasing number of people are wising up and buying these sweet spot gems up, and the east europeans and Africans who are far more down to earth and sensible about cars than us Brits have been busy buying the best of our prime used stock and shipping them off home for some years now, hence the increasing shortage in good used cars, particularly Landcruisers (thanks lads), leading to rising prices, just when i'm looking to upgrade mine...falling £ isn't helping with plan A which was to personally grey import a good used one straight from Japan where salt isn't a problem.
Edited by gordonbennet on 31/10/2016 at 14:10
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My experience if you want cars to last: buy from manufacturres who
1. make them in volume - so spares will be available cheaply.
2. have good ratings for electronic and auto gearbox reliability - thus ensuring parts will last.
3. Only buy from those backing up their products with 5 years or more warranty.
That basically says Honda, Toyota and Kia/Hyundai.
(see the thread where a 4 year old Peugeot lunches its auto gearbox £2k plus..
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=116434 )
Edited by madf on 31/10/2016 at 15:54
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The problem for me is many of the cars that have what I like also happen to be big cars : I wouldn't want to drive anything bigger than an S40. I also want comfort and a high driving position for easy access.
If doubt hadn't been put in my head by rust issue with older KIA then would probably have bought a Venga. I'm not really in a position to buy new.
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On a scale of one to ten, the 70s saw the greatest number of rusty cars in the form of Hondas , Lancia and Alfa Romeo.
Honda at least recalled all their cars with rust inn the whole of the northern hemisphere, whereas the italians stood back and did nothing and almost threw in the towel in the UK in the case of Lancia.
But I was interested to read that the Mk 5 Golf was affected along with the front wings on 2004 Passats and A4s.
Also no one has mentioned the Mercedes problems of the era 1999 to 2004
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Always fancied a Mk 5 TDI Golf.
But where do I look for Rust and which model year will be fitted with the best AWF diesel engine with the solenoid operated injectors as recommended in this thread?
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There have been functional designs Scot.
Volvo 1 2 7 and 9 series, especially the estates for their all purpose practicality are one such and many still out there in superb condition, and arguably S60 and V70's whilst not in the same simple durable mould are good long termers so long as looked after, we won't see their like again.
There's a guy in my village who's driven a Volvo 850 estate for years.
It never rusts and just goes on and on. I remember that Volvo enthusiasts turned their noses up at the time because it was front wheel drive, but it turned out to be very durable.
The turning circle was always bad though with that long five cylinder engine and gearbox combination mounted transversly between the front wheels.
Audi started galvanising their cars to banish rust, but how do Volvo manage to make such rust resistant bodies without galvanising?
By all accounts the later Ford owned Volvos aren't in the same league.
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Behind a Great Wall Steed today. 63 plate I believe. Nice steel grey metallic. Visible bubbling and rust round the number plate and surround.
Not used to seeing that on newer vehicles these days. Perhaps that's why a lot of panels are plastic these days.
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