BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! | Legal matters | Back Room Forum

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 15:11

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Colin Owen

I'm after some advice.

I purchased a BMW 520d 2012 registered done 44,000 miles on July 3rd 2016 with a 3 month warranty.

Around 1 week ago it started to develop a rattling noise, I called the warranty company, they advised I need to get it diagnosed before they can progress claim which would be at my cost.

Dropped in to garage Tuesday, they couldn't identify the issue as they didn't have correct tools. Took it to Diesel specialist today who have diagnosed the following:

-Broken Dual Mass Fly Wheel which needs replacing.

-Advised replacing Clutch at the same time as it's not advisable to put a used clutch with new flywheel.

The cost they advised is £1108

I've had them pass this on to the warranty company, I'm awaiting to hear from them before the games begin.

So wanted to preempt their reply and unwillingness to pay. Legally where do I stand with the following:

-Making the warranty company foot the bill.

-Failing this the car is only 10 weeks old making the dealership pay for the repair.

-Does it help/affect things that the car is on Car finance as I know paying with credit can sometime matter.

Any assistance is appreciated.

Colin

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 16:08

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Bromptonaut

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repai.../

Consumer helpline: 03454 04 05 06

Edited by Bromptonaut on 23/09/2016 at 16:09

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 19:46

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Brit_in_Germany

If the warranty company do pay, they will only cover the flywheel. You will have to pay for the clutch if you have it changed. Same goes for the seller if you go the consumer rights route.

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 19:52

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Colin Owen

Hi, Thanks for the reply surprise surprise, the warranty company have said DMF's are not covered but clutches are however as the clutch hasn't broken no deal.

What are my rights as a buyer with the car being only 10 weeks old in going to the dealership who sold the car. Do they need to prove the issue wasn't there before hand which considering it was only 10 weeks ago and the low milage would make it likely?

Lastly it's still under 5 years and 60,000 miles is there any scope to contact BMW?

Probably clutching at straws but worth an ask.

Thanks

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 20:42

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Falkirk Bairn

Selling garage is liable for 6 months after purchase - they either fix it, pay for it getting fixed elsewhere or give you cash back - simple - in theory - but you might have a fight on your hands.

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 21:00

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - pd

Clutches and DMF can be a bit of a nightmare as they are usually counted as a wear and tear item.

Nearly 3 months after purchase the selling garage would probably have grounds to fight it. They do not have to provide a fault free car, only one in line with what is considered satisfactory for age/miles/price whatever etc.

I'd approach the selling garage (nicely) and who knows they may say they'll pay. No harm in asking. If they won't try for a contribution deal.

I'd also check the price. A flywheel replacement on these books at 4.10 hours labour which isn't too terrible but the part is very expensive for what it is.

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 21:09

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Colin Owen

HI PD,

Thanks for response. Garage said about 4-5 hour so that make sense and yep saw the cost, absolutely extotionate. So people have mentioned a conversion to a SDF but I haven't seen the option available for the F10.

With the Wear and Tear would the fact that it's only 5 years and 44,000 miles not be considered out of line with the fact it's broken?

Thanks Again.

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Fri 23 Sep 2016 21:22

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Ian D

Forget the warranty, their expertise is in avoiding paying out, you have rights, the supplying dealer will have to fix it 100% at their cost, read the FAQ on this site, if you bought a £1000 200k banger it may be difficult but with your car your rights should apply

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Sat 24 Sep 2016 06:33

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - RobJP

Regarding the possible conversion to a SMF (single mass flywheel) - don't do it.

The DMF is there to protect the gearbox from the high torque produced. Remove it and you WILL end up causing serious damage to the gearbox, especially the lower gears.

Then you'll find out what expensive really is.

You've had the car less than 6 months. In law, any fault is viewed as being 'present or developing' at the time of sale, unless the selling garage can PROVE that you are responsible for the failure. After 6 months, the onus on proof switches to the other way.

If they refuse to get it fixed, or to make at least a reasonable contribution to the cost, then I can only suggest you inform them that you will be getting it repaired at your expense and then going through Small Claims Court to claim the sum off them. They may change their tune at that point. If not then you may have to carry through the threat.

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Sat 24 Sep 2016 11:20

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - pd

With the Wear and Tear would the fact that it's only 5 years and 44,000 miles not be considered out of line with the fact it's broken?

It might, but proving it is another matter.

The flywheels on these are silly prices.

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Sat 24 Sep 2016 17:22

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - concrete

RobJP is spot on with his analysis and advice. My question is this; did the dealer pay for the warranty as a means of protecting himself or did you pay for it as a seperate contract after buying the car. It may muddy the waters if the dealer bought it. Also warranty companies tend to reduce any claim on the grounds of betterment. This means you car with the new parts is a better car and they cut the claim to reflect this. Either way I think the 6 month rule applies here and especially with this vehicle so press ahead and be prepared to use the Small Claims Court.

Let us know how you get on.

Good luck, Concrete

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Sat 24 Sep 2016 18:02

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - pd

Just to add a slight fly to the ointment, it is not a case that a car has to be fault free. It has to be to a standard a reasonable person would expect.

Therefore, the standard one would expect on a new, 5 year old or 10 year old 150k car are all different so you can't simply talk about "faults". The older and higher mileage a car the more worn out anyone should expect it to be and the more parts are expected to need replacement. This is regardless of the 6 month rule.

In this case 44k miles is pretty early on to expect to be needing a new DMF. Nonetheless the buyer will still need to prove that:

(a) It is not normal or reasonable that a 5 year old car of this type with 44k should need a new DMF.

(b) It is not down to driving style, use or other factors.

Of course, everyone is getting a bit ahead of themselves here. The seller might simply offer to fix it or make a hefty contribution.

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Sat 24 Sep 2016 18:13

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - gordonbennet

Haven't a clue about legalities, my hope here would be that i would get a 50/50 cost share with the supplying dealer, preferably done through his trade contacts at a trade price using LUK or similar parts.

If the the seller came up with the goods all down to him i would be surprised and very pleased.

It is after all a used car, presumably it wasn't rattling like a tin can when bought, and it is a wear and tear part.

Maybe thats a soft customer view, but i think realistic.

The warranty i suspect, unless BMW approved used, will be the usual bog roll.

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Sun 25 Sep 2016 00:12

BMW 5 Series - Advice needed 10 week car broken!!!!! - Colin Owen

Hi, Concrete thanks for the info. The 3 month warranty came as standard there were options for extending the warranty but as gordon bennett mentions wasn't waorth it's weight in s***. An aside I don't get why warranty companies like them are allowed to exist. I get people need to make money but in my opinion you either cover everyything ot nothing, not cherry pick the most economical policy for your business.

PD, thanks again. Would I be correct in thinknig the onus isn't on me but the seller to prove the fault wasn't present before hand. You are quite correct around the seller may be completely reasonable which in my eyes would be 50/50 at least with me covering the clutch cost as technically it's not broken. I've left speaking to them until Monday so I can ensure everything is corteous.

Gordon Bennett (great name), My expectation is to pay full price out of my own pocket. If I get a free air freshner it's a bonus ;)

In all seriousness this is new territory for me and all advice is welcome.

Thanks

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