Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 12:30
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

Seen this on a few threads. Even newer cars mentioned that either have to be revved hard to pull away or otherwise will stall. Credit to Land Rover, my V reg manual TD5 has anti-stall. The TD5 engine is not the most torquey low down, possibly because of the disco gear ratios as it might be better in the defender. But this system means if you slowly release the clutch without giving any throttle, the computer will not allow it to stall. You can also start the car in gear if you wish and it wont stall either. Here's a youtube clip demonstrating it with a 12 ton lorry on the back. Doesn't even need a driver!

I have tested it on very steep hills with a Range Rover classic on the trailer, the car does not need throttle, it somehow gives just enough power to stop it stalling. Revs don't seem to increase either, just moves on tickover. Very clever system.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhuKLrjJLg

I wonder why other brands havent done similar..

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 12:40
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - madf

Other brands have engines fit for purpose.

And why anyone wants to start an engine in gear escapes me.

The TD5 was junk from what I read. (Oil into ECU, etc)

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 12:52
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

"Other brands have engines fit for purpose."

Well clearly not, judging by the comments of other users on this site complaining of this very issue with other brands.

I personally wouldn't want to start in gear, but it was done in the video for demonstration purposes.

TD5 is a good engine. More trustworthy than the Rover V8. One of the better Land Rover designs (Not a BMW design despite common misconceptions). Oil into ECU via the wiring loom is an issue, but an easy fix, can be prevented and has not happened on mine despite being 16 years old.

Real life experience trumps what you might have read. Good for about 250k if serviced correctly. Pulls like a train and has never skipped a beat. Every major part is original and has never been opened up.

My main point is, it's a very useful feature to be able to pull away without having to slip the clutch, even with a very heavy load on the back. This could be especially useful in normal cars trying to move off on an incline.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 12:53
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - gordonbennet

Old school Diesels almost always behaved like that it was one of the many attributes which endeared them, my old Landcruier which was manual was the same, you had to be seriously determined to stall it at all, probably get it progressively up to around third gear without touching the throttle at all if you wanted to.

Have you tried doing the same with the 2.7 V6 Diesel as found in Disco3? careful mind clutch not keen.

Edited by gordonbennet on 06/09/2016 at 12:54

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 21:29
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

I haven't driven a disco 3, although most of them are automatic which takes away the need for this feature i guess.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 14:40
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Cyd

Not just diesels. All of Rovers engines with MEMS (modular engine management system) do this. This included my 800 Vitesse Sport (T series turbo 200PS version) – it was so good I could drive 300m into our estate over the speed bumps at a nice steady 12mph in third without touching any pedals.

My Saab 9-3 Aero 2.0T does the same but not as well. It will reverse off the drive okay and move along in second at a steady 9-10mph over the same speed bumps in second. It can’t manage it in third.

IIRC (from what colleagues told me – it’s some years ago now) it was called ITC (intelligent throttle control). I seem to remember it was originally intended to intelligently control engine idle under variable load to keep ‘real world’ emissions and fuel consumption to a minimum under the variable load presented by electrical loads (lights, HRW, cooling fans etc etc) and air con (incl the condenser fan – which was also intelligently controlled and would switch off above 25mph to reduce electrical load).

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 16:03
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - SteVee

Why would you want to start in gear?
I was taught off-road in old Landies (defenders nowadays), the gear selectors were not good. If you stalled it on an incline then I was told to start it in gear (in low ratios) - it does work and gives better control.
I'm glad I don't have to do any of that stuff now - what on earth do farmers buy nowadays?

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 16:10
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

Most where I live still use Landies. Few old shoguns but they don't seem to hold up as well in hard use. Not sure what they'll replace them with now the Defender has ceased production. Probably Jap pickups.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 21:32
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

How interesting, maybe it is a feature inherited and improved upon by Land Rover from its time in the Rover group circa '86-2000. The TD5 was a very modern engine for the time.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 20:49
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - craig-pd130

Most modern turbodiesels have an anti-stall routine in their ECU, working off a switch on the clutch pedal. I believe it's to reduce stress on the DMF.

On both my Volvos and the Mondeo IV TDCI, lifting the clutch pedal with the car in gear, and without touching the throttle, would raise the revs from idle to a hair over 1000rpm. Then when the car starts rolling, the rpm drops back to idle again.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 21:33
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

Didn't realise its so common. TD5 anti-stall (as they call it) is managed by the ECU also.

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 21:48
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - brum

Most old school diesels pre euro 4 were anti stall designs. My 98 Alhambra tdi can start up a 1 in 5 incline without touching the throttle, the revs just stay constant.

Post euro 4, this feature is compromised, because torque is limited at idle revs by emissions requirements.

Edited by brum on 06/09/2016 at 21:50

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Tue 6 Sep 2016 21:55
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

I do hope we rid ourselves of such burdensome regulations when we leave and don't simply copy and paste onto our own statute books.

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Wed 7 Sep 2016 07:31
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - madf

I do hope we rid ourselves of such burdensome regulations when we leave and don't simply copy and paste onto our own statute books.

As if anyone will change designs for us.

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Wed 7 Sep 2016 12:46
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

Land Rover do separate 'EU' and 'export' models which are 'Rest of World' spec. For the TD5, this meant the export models to certain countries didnt bother with EGR among many other minor differences. Many UK owners subsequently bought kits to blank off the EGR.

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Tue 22 Aug 2017 21:17
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

For anyone interested, quick video of an anti-stall test on an incline, disco td5 down under.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9k1ya9_47g

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Sat 22 May 2021 14:32
Not enough torque pulling away. Clever Land Rover. - Metropolis.

And another example

youtu.be/kKIEdUnfPRc

Edited by Metropolis. on 22/05/2021 at 15:14

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