Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 09:35
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - BubbaDubba

Hi there i am looking for some insight on an issue i have with a 2007 407 at the moment. Last week i asked an independent garage to change a timing belt kit (contitech) and timing chain kit (Febi Bilstein) that i sourced myself from a reputable source.

The reason i also wanted to replace the chain is that i felt it was worn, it was probably starting to rub against the casing causing a slight noise over the usual idle sound.

Anyhow The job was carried out within a day and i collected the car, I started the car in the garage and it sounded absolutely perfect. The mechanic told me the chain was worn/stretched and did indeed need replacing.

Unfortunately withing a mile of the garage after leaving i starting to hear a loud knocking noise fromn the enfine that seemed to worsen with higher revs, i immediately returned to the garage and he asked me to leave the car with him saying it may be an injector?

the following day he had the top of the engine stripped back and calls me to say there is no problem with the injectors or cams and that it is probably valve damage in one clinder and that the head will have to come off to be sure and then skimmed and what not.

I asked the question as to how this happened immediately after the maintenance but he maintained it was not his fault.

Obviously i am no expert here but i would like to know if something he did incorrectly on the job could have caused this problem and have i any comeback. the car is still with the garage now and he has yet to come back with an assessment of the damage that will be revealed when the head is removed.

Any advice would be appreciated

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 09:43
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - Peter.N.

Strange one this. Normally I would have said the belt had been incorrectly fitted but if it ran OK when you first drove it would seem not so, unless it was so loose it could jump a tooth, unlikely I would have thought, unless the tensioner had not been correctly tensioned. If you have valve damage it almost certainly will have been caused by incorrect timing, how it became incorrect is of course the determining factor.

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 10:03
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - BubbaDubba

Thanks Peter, he did say they had it idling for an hour or two after the job was complete and it was perfect when i started it also at the premises. The problem only occurred within minutes of when it actually went on the road, the fact that he said he had it idling suggests he did not bring it for a test drive

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 10:43
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - gordonbennet

I hope you get a satisfactory coclusion here, even if the machanic has jumped to a defencive position before diagnosis.

No help here, but as a general point it's better to let a garage source parts as well as fit them, less muddy waters if the job goes pear shaped later on.

Edited by gordonbennet on 26/11/2015 at 10:43

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 11:03
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - Wackyracer

he did say they had it idling for an hour or two after the job was complete

That makes me suspicious! Why would you have it idling for that length of time after doing the job, it sounds like they suspected there was a problem and was trying to assure themselves it would be ok.

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 11:06
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - gordonbennet

Blimey, my speelings gone to pieces, apologies for the glaring typos above, guilty of not always proof reading before posting and that was one such.

Edited by gordonbennet on 26/11/2015 at 11:07

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 19:48
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - elekie&a/c doctor

I have a theory which may be completly off-track,but here goes.Replacing the cam belt is no big issue.Replacing the chain is a lot more involved as it is at the other end of the engine,gearbox side.This job involves removing the cam box cover and the injectors.These engines are renowned for injector blow-by due to failed seals and other issues and there is very often a build up of carbonised sludge and tar like substance.It is possible that some of this gunge has fallen into a cylinder,got stuck behind a valve and bent,causing low compression and misfire..Just a thought.

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 20:14
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - hardway

Typically I run an engine for a period of time after working on an engine,

And for a period of time read until the engine fan cycles on and off.

I prefer to see/hear a fan system running.

As to this engine damage I'm curious about the chain.

in my experience chains only streach due to lack of oil change maintinence.

if yours was streached............

I'm now thinking of oil pressure.

But the docs theory is good too.

I guess it's wait and see what the internal damage is.

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 21:07
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - BubbaDubba

update, i'm based in Ireland and i'm told its 2 cyclinders impacted and the guy that is repairing the head is quoting 500 euro for his end of things with skimming gasket etc, then the garage is looking for another 500 for labour 8 hydraulic lifters on exhaust side , oil change etc. so 1000 euro total. for a car that was purring nicely before driving it away i'm perplexed to say the least

Edited by BubbaDubba on 26/11/2015 at 21:10

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 21:14
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - Big John

I'd say it sounds like they caused the damage though - try to persuade to do this for free at best or at worst parts at cost and labour for free!

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Thu 26 Nov 2015 23:12
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - elekie&a/c doctor

Somewhere along the line,the garage has made a massive error.It should not be costing you a penny.I would stand your ground.

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Sun 29 Nov 2015 14:47
Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - Morris Marina 1.3 Super

I would be asking the garage if they used the correct tools and had the right datasheet to hand. Ideally they would need :-

  • Camshaft sprocket holding tool – No.1 860 765 000 ((-).0191).
  • Camshaft housing alignment pins – No.(-).0194.N.
  • Camshaft sprocket holding tool – No.(-).0191.M.
  • Camshaft sprocket locking tool – No.(-).0194.B.
  • Crankshaft alignment tool – No.(-).0194.A.
  • Flywheel locking tool – No.(-).0194.C.

    • There are 2 types of cam sprocket that require a chain with different marking spacings....Not sure if your 407 is type A or B or if the chain you ordered is correct. The cam timing would be 2 teeth out with the wrong chain.....

    http://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-replace-timing-chain-on-peugeot-307-1-6-hdi-2005-2007/

    And for the cambelt change

  • Camshaft sprocket locking tool – Peugeot No.(-).0194-B.
  • Crankshaft aligning tool – Peugeot No.(-).0194-A.
  • Flywheel locking tool – Peugeot No.(-).0194-C.
  • High-pressure fuel pump sprocket locking tool (Bosch pump) – Peugeot No.(-).0194-A 1.

    • http://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-replace-timing-belt-on-peugeot-307-1-6-hdi-2005-2007/

    The problem for independent garages is its often not worth them buying all the special tools for 'one off' jobs so they cut corners.

    I suspect in this case they may have used 'tipp ex' marks etc and bolts etc. . to save cost or not followed the proper procedure. It's not always essential to use the locking tools..but if your inexperienced on a job it's all too easy to slip up.

    The timing belt instalation unusually calls for the crank to be rotated 10 times before re-checking cam timing and belt tension.

    Hope this helps

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    Thu 3 Dec 2015 20:56
    Peugeot 407 1.6 HDI (110bhp) - Engine damage after Timing Belt Change - John F

    Somewhere along the line,the garage has made a massive error.It should not be costing you a penny.I would stand your ground.

    I agree. 'idling for an hour.....' - pull the other one! And did it actually need doing? Aren't these 10yrs / 80,000m? - which means the odds of it failing are pretty remote anyway - and if that's just a tiny short chain from one cam to the other any 'stretch' would have an infinitesimal effect.

    A sad story - all too common.

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