N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 12:34

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - galileo

The other day I saw a Corsa reverse over 20 yards at increasing speed across a pedestrianised area of the town and smash into a shop window.

Guess what: automatic gearbox. And? Elderly lady driver.

Apparently she said, "it stuck in reverse and revved up".

Fortunately she was only shaken and confused, no one else was injured, but unless there genuinely is some demonic mechanical gremlin which activates when elderly drivers try to park or maneouvre, I suspect this and the other cases of loss of control are due to the driver desperately pressing the accelerator to try and stop; HJ always recommends left foot braking with automatics (I've always done so when I had autos).

Would it not be a good idea for anyone selling an auto to someone accustomed to manuals to take time to emphasise this is the safe method?

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 12:52

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - thunderbird

HJ always recommends left foot braking with automatics (I've always done so when I had autos).

Would it not be a good idea for anyone selling an auto to someone accustomed to manuals to take time to emphasise this is the safe method?

Please explain why that is the safe method.

When driving an auto I have always kept my left leg well out of the way and used the right leg to accelerate and brake as normal. The right leg then has to do what it has done in a manual and you can only press one pedal at a time.

I have witnessed people left foot braking in auto's they usually stamp on the pedal like its a clutch with no finesse.

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 13:16

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Collos25

I agree ,HJ does not seem to recommend his system anymore perhaps because its wrong or perhaps you could say to the police or insurance company "well it was recommended by HJ".

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 15:01

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - madf

I am old.

I brake with my right foot

I drive an automatic.

Does this automatically mean I am going to crash into something by pressing the accelerator rather than the brake.?

I really want to know so I can sleep soundly at night without worrying :-)

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 16:12

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Collos25

I think you can sleep soundly.

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 16:20

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - galileo

If you are well used to driving an auto it doesn't matter which foot you use.

The loss of control incidents which occur (usually at low speed maneouvres when parking) seem to involve drivers who have had manuals for years. With advancing age they think it would be nice not to have to bother with clutches and gear changes, so buy an automatic.

Once accustomed to one foot to go and one to stop, it is surely less likely they'll have a 'runaway'

I do take the point that left foot braking needs a controlled pressure rather than the 'clutch' stamp but it isn't hard to learn.

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 08:26

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - barney100

Fil did something like that from a standing start, trying to park in a busy area he wrote off three cars and his own. This is almost unbelievable but true. His auto
Rover also damaged other parked cars but luckily no one was injured. The police were soon on the scene and apparently they have a name for older drivers in autos doing this. He was not banned nor indeed did his insurance go up much which staggered me. He took some sort of test and was advised to give up driving and a short while after did. The 'written off' Rover appeared on a forecourt later for sale too. I drive autos and have tried l foot braking but it is not natural or safe to me.

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 08:50

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - veryoldbear

Many moons ago I had my first experience of an auto at Los Angeles airport having just got off a plane. I had no idea as to how to do things, and I tried left foot braking, thus causing me to flatten my nose on the windscreen, or windshield as them furriners call it ...

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 09:39

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

Apparently she said, "it stuck in reverse and revved up".

That's a driver error and just as likely on a manual as on an automatic.

As an older driver I don't accept that age has anything to do with it either as younger drivers make many mistakes.

Incompetence should be dealt with as just that - don't blame other irrelevant issues.

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 09:53

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - jc2

As part of my job(I'm now retired)I drove both LHD/RHD in both LHD&RHD countries and also both autos and manuals (and automated manuals).Because I changed types regularly-sometimes several on the same day-I used to tuck my left foot back and drive autos with one foot.If you only ever drive an auto,certainly use your left foot for braking.It'll get sensitive enough in time.

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 11:40

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Andrew-T

The other day I saw a Corsa reverse over 20 yards at increasing speed across a pedestrianised area of the town and smash into a shop window.

Guess what: automatic gearbox.

Friends of ours had the front corner of their property demolished last year by a very new Golf auto in just this way. I have no details of the driver, but I understand that VW were investigating a possible problem.

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 23:05

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - focussed

Having been a driving instructor in the UK, I was fortunate in having two cars to teach my pupils on. My main car was a 8th generation Honda Civic 2.2 Ctdi manual box, and the reserve car a K11 CVT automatic Micra. All my manual pupils did at least one two hour lesson on the auto Micra whether they wanted to or not because a manual licence entitles holders to drive an auto.

My auto only pupils loved the Micra and I never had a test fail in that great little car in three years and about 40 pupils.

The accepted brake/gas pedal usage to teach is left foot brake/right foot gas pedal when manouvering/parking to maintain control and right foot only for gas/brake pedal when driving at normal road speeds.

If taught properly it's easily picked up and the pupil will always remember the different discipline of driving the auto.

Why the Driving Standards Agency will cheerfully issue a test pass certificate on the basis of a manual gearbox test to obtain a licence entitling the holder to also drive an auto when they probably have never driven one is beyond me.

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Thu 7 Mar 2013 23:32

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Paul87

As young driver who has driven manuals for a few years and only ever learned on a manual it took me a couple of minutes to get use to drving the auto vehicles at work. I took sometime stationary to familiarize myself with the controls (or lack thereof) and drove gently making sure I was comfortable. It was hardly a massive change than it would be for someone going from an auto to manual without learning clutch control.

Unfortuantly as you get older your reactions slow down, so you will become more prone to an accident. Autos compund the problem as you are removing an element of control over the vehicle.

Edited by Paul87 on 07/03/2013 at 23:36

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 00:18

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - unthrottled

When you first try to left foot brake in a car your nose smashes into the windscreen.

Yet if you get into a Go Kart, you adapt to left foot braking much more quickly. Why is this?

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 08:19

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Happy Blue!

I left foot brake all the time whether LHD or RHD. However it is easier in some cars than others and I find I can switch quite easily between either method.

Unthrottled asks an interesting question. Gokarts have non-powered brakes, so you need to press hard to make them work. Also they don't work well when cold. So mashing your left foot onto the pedal gives a modest braking effect and by the time they have warmed up, your foot is conditioned to the effort required.

If people wish to left foot brake only then fine. Unintended acceleration is nothing to do with left foot braking. It is the disorientation of an elderly or novice driver.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 09:42

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Collos25

I would substitute elderly and use the correct word which is incompetent.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 12:17

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - John F

When you first try to left foot brake in a car your nose smashes into the windscreen.

Yet if you get into a Go Kart, you adapt to left foot braking much more quickly. Why is this?

Because the equivalent driving position would be sitting on the centre console with a central steering wheel and the brake pedal in the passenger footwell!

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 12:45

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - wrangler_rover

My company car is soon due for renewal.

Having had an Avensis D4D Tourer for 4 years, I fancied a change, looked at a Prius Plug In, had one on a 3 day extended test drive, ended up driving it 30 miles on day 1, left it on the drive days 2 and 3. I hated every minute of driving it, I didn't feel in control of the car with the auto transmission and kept using the parking brake pedal as a footrest as it was on the left hand side of the footwell. I guess with time, I would have got used to the transmission and the parking brake position (and the lack of grunt I was used to in a 2 litre diesel) but my only motivation for looking at the Prius Plug In was the low company car benefits in kind.

I decided on another Avensis D4D Tourer, "does everything it says on the tin" and I feel at ease driving it.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 14:09

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

After 25 years of manual transmissions I changed to automatics which I've now driven for nearly as long - I've never bothered to left-foot brake and don't have any problem just using the right-foot for manoeuvring.

This begs the question - what's the advantage of left-foot braking in ordinary use, not track or rally. If there's no real advantage vwhy start that way?

Edited by RT on 08/03/2013 at 14:09

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 15:10

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - madf

Left foot braking is great if you are not very mobile and cannot move your right foot over to the brake pedal very quickly.

Apart from that, I cannot think of any reason to use it. When I cannot move my foot quickly to brake, I should not be driving..

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 15:44

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

Left foot braking is great if you are not very mobile and cannot move your right foot over to the brake pedal very quickly.

Apart from that, I cannot think of any reason to use it. When I cannot move my foot quickly to brake, I should not be driving..

+1 !!

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 15:21

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Bromptonaut

Focussed, a former ADI, has the right answer in my view.

I don't like automatics but occasionaly drove conventional TC boxed cars belonging to my parents and uncle. Ranged from an Issigonis Mini to a V6 Ford Granada and latterly a Clio. Kept my left foot well out of way except to cover the brake for close proximity maneouvering. The older cars running fast on the choke tended to scuttle backwards off the drive pretty quickly if you were not careful.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 17:31

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Sulphur Man

Just to get some perspective on this thread, there is no actual 'problem' with elderley drivers and/or automatic cars.

Young drivers (17-24) are responsible for a disproportionately high number of crashes, deaths and claims, primarily due to inexperience and attitude. Insurance premiums reflect the high risk that all UK motor insurers have to take when quoting for a young driver.

By comparison, an experienced driver over 60 in an automatic Corsa will bay a fraction, less than a tenth, of an 18-yr old's insurance premium in the same vehicle.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 17:01

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - barney100

I have an auto and have tried the L foot braking and it feels very awkward. everybody is different and the L foot technique may suit some. In my opinion moving your R foot between the two pedals is natural. All the L foot does is operate the 'handbrake' which on my car is the 3rd pedal.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 17:51

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - John Boy

All the L foot does is operate the 'handbrake' which on my car is the 3rd pedal.

Sorry, I'm missing something here. What does that sentence mean?

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 17:59

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

All the L foot does is operate the 'handbrake' which on my car is the 3rd pedal.

Sorry, I'm missing something here. What does that sentence mean?

An increasing number of automatic cars have a foot-operated parking brake, known by many as a foot/handbrake, and fitted roughly where the clutch pedal goes in a manual.

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Fri 8 Mar 2013 18:36

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - John Boy

All the L foot does is operate the 'handbrake' which on my car is the 3rd pedal.

Sorry, I'm missing something here. What does that sentence mean?

An increasing number of automatic cars have a foot-operated parking brake, known by many as a foot/handbrake, and fitted roughly where the clutch pedal goes in a manual.

Thanks, RT. I changed to an auto because a problem with strength in my left leg, so that wouldn't suit me.

I can understand why HJ advocates left foot braking and have tried it, but don't find it easy. I think unfocussed has the right approach - manoeuvring only - so I'll find an empty car park and give it another go.

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 07:35

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - barney100

Including my camper van we have 3 auto vehicles and I can't use L foot braking safely. I can get my R foot from the accelerator to the brake pretty smartly and under control. If L foot braking is better why isn't it used on manual cars?

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 09:47

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - unthrottled

Because rally drivers use the technique, a lot of people assume that it must be better. The fact is that most users don't have enough finesse with their left foot to make use of it effectively.

The only real advantage I can see is that it is impossible to inadvertantly stomp on the accelerator pedal.

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 13:11

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - madf

Lets see:

My auto Jazz will creep forward with foot off the accelerator

So slow speed.parking is a doddle.

I may be an OAP but am still compos mentis and full control of my faculties: including my feet.

Why should I need to use my left foot for braking when parking?

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 14:17

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Collos25

Could you imagine the scenario if you had an accident "Well I read about a different way to brake on the HJ forum and he is always right"

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 16:48

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - John Boy

madf said:

"Lets see:

My auto Jazz will creep forward with foot off the accelerator

So slow speed.parking is a doddle.

I may be an OAP but am still compos mentis and full control of my faculties: including my feet.

Why should I need to use my left foot for braking when parking?"

You're obviously one of the many perfect drivers on this forum, so you don't need to.

Here's why I think left foot braking can be useful for parking etc.

An auto will creep forward with foot off the accelerator - if you're on level ground or pointing downhill. If it's pointing uphill, you need a little bit of accelerator and that can be tricky. In a manual car, you can slip the clutch a little to compensate, if you give it too much accelerator. With an auto, you've got to get the accelerator just right or the car can shoot forward unexpectedly. If the engine is still on choke, it can be even more tricky.

Edited by John Boy on 09/03/2013 at 16:53

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 17:19

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

An auto will creep forward with foot off the accelerator - if you're on level ground or pointing downhill. If it's pointing uphill, you need a little bit of accelerator and that can be tricky. In a manual car, you can slip the clutch a little to compensate, if you give it too much accelerator. With an auto, you've got to get the accelerator just right or the car can shoot forward unexpectedly. If the engine is still on choke, it can be even more tricky.

If you can't accurately judge just how much throttle is needed to achieve the desired result without needing to fight the brakes against the throttle - should you be driving ?

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 17:23

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - John Boy

If you can't accurately judge just how much throttle is needed to achieve the desired result without needing to fight the brakes against the throttle - should you be driving ?

You seem to be doing exactly the same as madf above - implying that anyone who might want to do left foot braking must be mentally or physically challenged.

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 17:39

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Bromptonaut

An auto will creep forward with foot off the accelerator - if you're on level ground or pointing downhill. If it's pointing uphill, you need a little bit of accelerator and that can be tricky. In a manual car, you can slip the clutch a little to compensate, if you give it too much accelerator. With an auto, you've got to get the accelerator just right or the car can shoot forward unexpectedly. If the engine is still on choke, it can be even more tricky.

If you can't accurately judge just how much throttle is needed to achieve the desired result without needing to fight the brakes against the throttle - should you be driving ?

IME it's not a question of fighting engine against throttle but dealing with creep that can be too fast - particularly on cold start. Also autos, at least the older petrol sort I've driven, have little engine braking and are more prone to run ahead of the throttle than manuals. Covering the brake with the left foot while in a low speed/proximity manouvre provides a belt and braces.

Once under way left foot is tucked out of way.

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Sat 9 Mar 2013 22:43

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - barney100

As a ' right sided' person I've much mopre control with the R side...I write R handed, paly golf R handed, obviously my R foot is more natural than th e left so it's natural to use the R for braking too.

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Sun 10 Mar 2013 07:52

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

As a ' right sided' person I've much mopre control with the R side...I write R handed, paly golf R handed, obviously my R foot is more natural than th e left so it's natural to use the R for braking too.

But that's politically incorrect these days - any preference towards rightsidedness must be stamped out at nursery and school - equality by making both sides as inept as the other !

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Sun 10 Mar 2013 08:07

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - jc2

Handbrake?????

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Sun 10 Mar 2013 08:49

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - RT

Handbrake?????

An increasing number of automatics have a foot-operated parking brake - requiring the left foot !

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Sun 10 Mar 2013 13:26

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - blindspot

tried left foot braking and was getting used to it. then an emergency occured and my right foot sweept in but my left foot was over the brake. so only use that method in nervy auto in a tight uphill maneouvre

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Sun 10 Mar 2013 15:21

N/a - Autobox + aged drivers = hazard - Sir Lancelot

When manoeuvring in confined space I find that the car will moved on its own without throttle input and my right foot is over the brake at all times. In my drive I have to get within less than an inch of the wall of the house on the nearside, as the drive is so narrow.

This also limits which cars I can buy. My current 2ltr Auto Picasso is irrepplaceable, I've search for the last two years but nothing will relace it.

Edited by Sir Lancelot on 10/03/2013 at 15:26

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