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Something wrong with rolling into neutral and apllying the handbrake? Or switch the ignition off?
This is not a fault with the car. Hand controls are retro-fitted by dealerships. Essentially they consist of a pivoted lever resting on the brake and accelerator pedal. An operating rod runs up to the top of the steering column. Pulling the hand control towards you depresses the brake. Pushing it away from you rotates the lever in the opposite direction and depresses the accelerator.
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Some Americans died in a Lexus after their throttle jammed.
What's frightening about these cases is that drivers don't seem to know how to bring a car under control when something goes wrong.
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Correct - no blame can attach to Renault. And probably not to the installer of the disabled devices either. If you are frightened then save your life and trash the engine rather than save the car and trash your life. Put it into neutral and let the engine rev itself to bits.
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Re. switching the ignition off, I remember reading about a case in the US that involved a 'runaway' VW Jetta auto on a freeway. It careened along at 100+ before being stopped by a state trooper, who got in front of the Jetta, then gradually slowed it bumper-to-bumper.
The Jetta owner claimed the transmission selector had 'locked' so she couldn't knock it into neutral, that the throttle pedal had jammed and she couldn't lift the pedal, and that she'd tried to switch off the ignition (conventional column-mount barrel & key) but 'it didn't work'.
However the state trooper reported he had switched off the engine on the key when he got the car stopped. It's speculated that the driver had panicked while the car was 'running away' and was turning the key to position III, not to position I.
With the current fad for starter buttons and keyless ignitions, I wonder what happens if you hit the 'start/stop' button at speed? Does it kill the engine? I'll have to give it a try ....
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For a car to have its throttle jam, the gear selector lock up and the ignition switch fail would be bad luck indeed.
But have you ever tried knocking a manual car out of gear while the power is still applied, not normally easy or even possible, does that apply to an auto as well I wonder.
Turning the ignition off and possibly locking the steering does not bear thinking about. OK it does not lock until you remove the key but would some muppets realise that.
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>>But have you ever tried knocking a manual car out of gear while the power is still applied, not normally easy or even possible
What's the clutch for?
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Early 850cc Minis could suffer from the throttle snapping open, as I well remember to this day. The throttle return spring of the inch-and-a-quarter SU carburetter was hooked into a small bracket which was spot-welded to the bulkhead. The spring-steel, being much harder than the mild-steel bracket, would wear its way through the bracket, until one day, driving along, carefree and happy, there would be a 'twang' and the accelerator pedal would sag uselessly and the car would accelerate away. Well - acceleration for an 850cc Mini wasn't exactly the frightening experience that you'd get in a modern car and I had plenty of time to switch off the ignition and stop. But there's a thing - there was no steering lock in those days - nothing to frighten the driver! Later SU carbs had their own anchor for the return spring (which is what I fitted to mine).
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With the current fad for starter buttons and keyless ignitions, I wonder what happens if you hit the 'start/stop' button at speed? Does it kill the engine? I'll have to give it a try ....
RTFM. According to the Prius handbook, holding the button down for ten seconds will kill the engine in all circumstances. Judging from the number of idiots reporting that the things cannot be stopped if the pre-recall throttle problem appears, you have to assume that not many bother reading the handbook.
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". Judging from the number of idiots reporting that the things cannot be stopped if the pre-recall throttle problem appears, you have to assume that not many bother reading the handbook."
You have to remember that you (the BRs) are interested in cars and motoring or you wouldn't be on this site. The average motorist now has not the slightest idea of how the car works or how to react in emergencies, let alone how to fix things. As for reading the handbook...
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Another thought on this. Many modern cars have drive-by-wire throttles, and touching the brake pedal usually cuts fuelling. Presumably this isn't the case with this particular Renault?
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As I said in a previous thread, with hand control conversions, the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal are operated by the same lever. If, for whatever eason, the lever jams whilst the accelerator pressed, then the hand control can't operate the brake either.
Either the apparatus wasn't firmly attached to the bulkhead and it came loose and jammed, or the axis pin in the lever assembly bent or came loose.
But this will go down as 'proof' that French automotive electronics are the spawn of the devil and can take on a mind of their own and wreak havoc among unsuspecting motorists.
A simple mechanical failurein an unholy alliance with human ignorance. Nothing more.
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Something wrong with rolling into neutral and apllying the handbrake? Or switch the ignition off?
Have you ever tried applying the handbrake at 120mph? Hardly advisable. Anyway if his handbrake is anything like my Peugeots, then it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
My car has no handbrake and no clutch. I have no idea if you can turn the engine off at 120mph as I've not been stupid enough to try.
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Why would applying the handbrake be less preferable to carrying on at 120mph? You're not trying to do a handbrake turn, just slow the car down.
if you can turn the engine off at 120mph as I've not been stupid enough to try.
People laugh at me because I do try this sort of thing. This means that, in the event of mechanical failure, I know what to do and won't flap around like a metrosexual concubine in an MPV.
If you switch the ignition off in a conventional car, nothing remarkable happens. The brakes and power steering continue to work. Even the noise is the same. Some people that the steering wheel will immediately lock and the brakes will fail!
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Why would applying the handbrake be less preferable to carrying on at 120mph? You're not trying to do a handbrake turn, just slow the car down.
Well that depends. If I was in my 406 then applying the handbrake would do nothing at all. Literally, it would have no impact. I once drove a lap on the M25 in it with the handbrake fully applied. If I was in my S-Type then that's...well...impossible. There is no handbrake lever. My point is the vast majority of motoringists would find themselves upside down, in a hedge, in the North if they applied it at 120.
People laugh at me because I do try this sort of thing.
Oh come on, as if your car would do 120mph. I can understand why you'd want to prepare for catastrophic mechanic failure though, owning a '96 Megane.
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>>the vast majority of motoringists would find themselves upside down, in a hedge, in the North if they applied it at 120.
Would care to explain the physics that would cause that and how they differ from applying the footbrake at speed?
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Handbrake would lock the wheels up. Slamming on the brakes at 120mph (with ABS) would not.
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In fairness, an electric handbrake would lock the wheels up (assuming the electronics permitted its application-which they probably wouldnt). A nice cable operated handbrake can be applied progressively and needn't lock the wheels. Not a huge amount of available braking from the rear axle but better than nothing.
I'm still incredulous that the gear selector would refuse to shift to neutral. Torque convertor autos shift under load and American hypermilers roll in and out of neutral with their autos just like manuals do. If the throttle is pressed down, the engine will race but it'll won't exceed the governed limit. It is worrying that cars seem to be having failsafe operations designed out of them. At a bare minimum I would say that there should be a way of manually uncoupling the engine from the wheels (ie the ability to select neutral) and a mechanical ignition switch which can't be overriden by the ECU.
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Munchausens by auto syndrome.
They also let handbrakes off other people's vehicles and then jump in the seat and steer and brake them to safety, followed by a 'hero' picture in the paper.
Edited by Hamsafar on 15/02/2013 at 21:25
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I'm still incredulous that the gear selector would refuse to shift to neutral.
Well unsurprisingly I don't feel like trying it out but I can report when the car is sat still it won't move out of park without a foot on the brake. If at 120mph pushing the brake increased my speed....that could be inconvenient.
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Handbrake would lock the wheels up. Slamming on the brakes at 120mph (with ABS) would not.
Sweeping generalisation there. My car with rear drums may, just about be able to lock the rear wheels. The one with rear discs never would.
Edited by bathtub tom on 16/02/2013 at 12:16
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Son in law had a scary incident last week .He dives a Peugeot 207 small car and had to stop for traffic.Mercedes run in to him and pushed his car well forward.Big pick up lorry missed him by a few inches taking evasive action.His car is still drivable ready to go in for repairs.He had to take a few days of work body aching and bruising from his seatbelt.
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QUOTE:...""if you can turn the engine off at 120mph as I've not been stupid enough to try.""
The power-assistance to the steering would stop, which wouldn't be too bad if you're prepared for it getting heavier suddenly - although on a straightish road it probably wouldn't be that noticeable. But on a car like the one in question, with adaption for disabled driver, that might pose a bigger problem. Turn the engine off at 120 mph and the car would just slow down and roll to stop (although possibly becoming a serious traffic hazard in the process), since it would be in a high gear.
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The power-assistance to the steering would stop, which wouldn't be too bad if you're prepared for it getting heavier
Not of it is hydraulically driven. In any case power, power assistance is only required at low speed.
But on a car like the one in question, with adaption for disabled driver, that might pose a bigger problem.
Ever tried driving a car with hand controls? An able bodied driver would be fatigued in about 20 minutes. You are literally operating the pedals with your right hand via a system of levers. Limp wristers need not apply.
though possibly becoming a serious traffic hazard in the process
Nowhere near as much of a hazard as you would be stuck at 120mph!
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