Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale | Legal matters | Back Room Forum

What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks

Fri 1 Feb 2013 21:19

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - Jonny CLS

I bought a Mercedes CLS privately in October.

The vehicle was described as being mint and having no faults. Whenever I buy a car privately I always ask if there are any problems at all and state that I don't mind if there are as long as I know and can then bid accordingly.

When viewing the car all seemed fine, however, after getting it home I found a number of faults totalling £3500. I have receipts and evidence to support the costs and repairs and also a statement from the garage stating what the faults were. These were identified within 5 days of buying the car.

I wrote to the seller advising him as soon as I was aware and offered to settle for £1,500. In addition to emails confirming the car having no faults he signed a car purchase contract which stated that the car was sold with the buyer not having to rectify any faults.

As additional evidence, the seller provided me with a Mercedes inspection sheet from when he bought the car which listed pretty much all the faults that I identified 6 months later ! This proves that he was aware of them.

Needless to say, I'm taking him to small claims, but just thought I'd ask what my chances are as it's a private sale.

Funnily enough the seller is a solicitor !

Should be interesting if it does end up in court...

I'd appreciate any feedback etc.

Cheers

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 1 Feb 2013 23:07

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - bathtub tom

Please keep us informed of the outcome.

I'd think that as a private seller you'd have no claim against him, however, :As additional evidence, the seller provided me with a Mercedes inspection sheet from when he bought the car which listed pretty much all the faults that I identified 6 months later ! This proves that he was aware of them.

Could that indicate he was trying to dis-associate himself from the dealer with whom he was actually associated?

He's a solicitor. He's had the car for less than six months. He's aware of private/dealer differences in selling.

Perhaps a little digging into how many cars he's sold lately and any connection with the dealer that provided the inspection report?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 1 Feb 2013 23:25

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - tony g

(he signed a car purchase contract which stated that the car was sold with the buyer not having to rectify any faults. )

As additional evidence, the seller provided me with a Mercedes inspection sheet from when he bought the car which listed pretty much all the faults that I identified 6 months later ! This proves that he was aware of them. )

Hi jonny.
Generally speaking as a buyer you have very few rights when you buy from a private seller , the only rights you have ,is when a private seller deliberately misleads you .ie if you ask about a particular fault and the buyer lies ,then you can make a claim ,if you can prove he lied .

The first quote from your post is interesting ,I've never heard of a private seller being willing to indemnify a buyer against faults .Im not sure that as part of a contract to buy it could be enforced ,the seller may say he wasn't aware of any faults and had never seen the Mercedes inspection sheets you mention .

If you do go to court ,a judge may decide that because you bought privately ,you should have had the car checked by a professional before you bought and shouldn't be trying to enjoy the rights of a trade sale ,when you bought at a lower private sale price .
It's not clear to me that you would get a judgment in you favour in the small claims court .
However your circumstances with the seller are so unusual that I don't think it's possible to determine what a judge would say.

Please let the forum know the outcome

Regards

Tony g

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 2 Feb 2013 07:31

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - Brit_in_Germany

Was he seliing the car as part of his business as a solicitor, i.e. was the car sale counted as taxable income for him? If so, he would be subject to the same sale of goods act as a trader rather than a "private" seller.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 2 Feb 2013 08:07

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - Jonny CLS

Hi - the sale was totally private and had no connection with his business, however, in email contact before the sale price was agreed he stated that the car had no faults, which to me is misrepresentation and by signing the car purchase contract which was downloaded from mycarcheck.com, there is a breach of contract.

I didn't ask about specific faults, I asked about "any faults at all" so effectively gave him the opportunity to identify them to me.

He bought the car from a non Merc car dealer and had it inspected by Mercedes, who produced a list of faults and cost to rectify them. He carried out one or two of the cheaper repairs, but then sold the car on to me with the expensive ones not done.

I have no legal background or experience, however, I wouldn't have bought the car had he disclosed the true facts which were known to him and luckily I have lots and lots of evidence backing me up.

I will definitely report back on the outcome.

Cheers

Edited by Jonny CLS on 02/02/2013 at 08:08

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 2 Feb 2013 08:47

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - Brit_in_Germany

Jonny, it may have looked like a private sale but one of the problems for those who are self-employed, which a solicitor is likely to be, is distinguishing between private and business. The temptation is to make the purchase of assets a business expense to save on income tax/VAT but disposing of them later carries the liabilty associated with the SOGA.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 2 Feb 2013 09:58

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - Jonny CLS

Thanks for that, he now owns his own firm and works from home, so it could well be that that is the case !

I'm being realistic and not holding out too much hope, but feel that the cost and hassle of going to court is worth it as I do feel particularly aggrieved that I was effectively misled on very specific questions.

I've heard that the courts are generally pretty fair. I suppose the only real issue is that of a private sale, but because I have so much evidence I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

The district judge is asking some questions of the seller before deciding where to allocate the hearing, so if I didn't have a case would he have kicked it out of court as a private sale by now ?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 25 Sep 2013 18:57

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - hatefraudsters

Any news since then?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Oct 2013 16:22

Mercedes CLS - Misrepresented private sale - Skezza

This is one of the many reasons why I carry a Bluetooth OBD-II scanner around with me when going to view a second hand car private sale. It cost me about £8 off eBay but my word how useful it has been. Sure, it won't identify all the faults that may be present on a car but it can show a surprisingly detailed history of a car if it's been bodged by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. If it's been bodged by someone who does, then you probably won't find anything. I once viewed a Vauxhall Astra Turbo Diesel and after I suggested the car felt a bit gutless he said it was because it was cold and needed a service. I plugged in the OBD-II and it flagged up a turbo spool error which according to Astra forums is usually the sign of a nackered turbo on it's last legs. Yikes! Saved me some hassle that did!

I've only had one person tell me they have a problem with me plugging it in, but after I reminded them that "if they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear"

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator