Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 17:57
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - leafydrive

Some advice would be very helpful.I'm agonising (I'm indecisive) between a 99bhp and a 130bhp, the reviews I've read suggest that the difference is quite substantial. I'm going to be doing some long distance motorway driving, and I do enjoy a car with a good bit of poke.

However, my budget is super tight and the I'm struggling to find a 2003/2004 130bhp 1.9 diesel model for under £2,500, and am about to opt for the 99bhp model which seems to be much cheaper.

Will I regret it? will always be dreaming about the hot 130bhp I could have had?

I've pretty much been car-less for a long time relying on a push bike, so admittedly 99bhp will be quite a step-up. Even so, I'm about to embark on a tour of Europe & it'll be good to be in a car capable of hasty exit; I'm not a great fan of the french and I have a tendency to put my foot in it.

Yr thoughts please.

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 18:20
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - unthrottled

The 130hp is the pick of the bunch. But your budget doesn't stretch to one. It's more of a Hobson's choice than a dilemma!

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 18:26
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - 659FBE

Looking at your requirements, and having a (larger) VAG group vehicle with the 130 HP engine, I would recommend strongly that you check and consider the gearing of each engine/vehicle combination under consideration. The lower powered engine is absolutely OK for most applications, especially in a lighter body.

For your job, if the 130 engine is fitted with a transmission giving a higher top gear, then for motorway use, this would be the one to go for. If the gearing is the same for each, and if you don't pull a trailer and the last 5% of acceleration capability is not important to you, save your money and buy the lower powered engine. Either will be very satisfactory given careful and correct maintenance.

VAG are sometimes rather coy about providing gear ratios and sometimes you have to work them out from the top gear ratio multiplied by the final drive ratio, corrected for tyre rolling radius. (They're a helpful lot).

Worth doing though - on my Skoda Superb, the difference between top gear on the 5 and the 6 speed box equates to a drop of just 120 engine rpm at 70 mph. The 6 speed box was just a marketing ploy - the engine doesn't need it and in fact it's less reliable.

I hope you find the right vehicle - the 1.9 PD is a good engine, but I had great trouble getting accurate and relevant information out of VAG when I was planning to buy mine. The Internet is your friend here...

659.

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 18:58
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - leafydrive

Thanks for the informative reply.

I won't be pulling a trailer, and it's only me in the car with not that much luggage. But because I'll be driving very long distances I was also thinking about comfort levels bieng better in a 130BHP, i could stretch my budget to £3k but not if the difference isn't that noticeable.

I'm now also looking at the Skoda Fabia 1.9, as they seem to be much cheaper, and there's more of them around. Is there much of differnce in fuel economy between the Fabia and Ibiza? Also, would there be a mpg difference between the ibiza 99bhp and 130bhp?

Thanks

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 19:14
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - unthrottled

There won't be any discernible economy difference between the Fabia and the Ibiza since they are basically rebadged versions of the same car. Likewise economy: if driven the same way, the economy will be very similar. The 130hp version has a larger variable geometry turbo. The 99hp version will have a cheap wastegated one. I don't think the 99hp version has an intercooler. Can't remember if the higher output versions used different pistons or not. While the basic architecture of both engines is the same, VAG had to add a few goodies for the high output versions.

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 20:31
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - dieseldogg

Why such a small car if planning long journeys, budget driven I can only presume?

I would of course suggest one of the VW Galaxy varients in 110 or 130 guise.

Most excellent, dead flat sleeping room in the rear with the seats removed and seat fixings unscrewed. Been there done that.

When I drove the 90 bhp in the galaxy it was useless.

The 110 bhp was a different animal entirely, I presume due to the variable vane turbo technology.

prob not really rel to your question

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 20:41
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - jamie745

More is more, which is just better.

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 20:50
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - craig-pd130

659 makes a good point. From memory, the Ibiza PD130 with 6-speed gearbox has intergalactic gearing -- longer even than the 6-speed boxes in the PD130 Passats -- which blunt the in-gear grunt somewhat. I have a scanned road test somewhere which gives the gear ratios and performance.

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 21:17
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - Trilogy

Why don't you test drive both versions and see which you prefer?

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 21:20
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - leafydrive

Thanks, I'm not sure if I understand the technicalities other then it's not going to make a major difference right? Other then the Ibiza & Fabia are there other reliable diesel cars with good mpg that I could be looking at within my budget?

Thanks

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 21:48
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - Big John

My 2003 Superb has the 1.9tdi 100bhp (not the 130) and drives really well. I bought it because it was very good value with this engine and drove MUCH better than expected on a test drive. The low to mid range torque exceeds expectations pulling well from as low as 1200rpm. Indeed I regularly use it for long relaxed continental holiday runs. Didn't feel out of place on the German Autobahn this year (er last year! - happy new year).

It has also been very reliable with the only drivetrain problems being an alternator failure and a slight problem with the EGR valve which turned out to be a damaged vacuum pipe(£30 fix) in 140,000 miles (still has the original battery, clutch and exhaust). It also does 50mpg - and I'm not exactly a gentle driver.

The same engine should be great in the much smaller Ibiza.

Edited by Big John on 02/01/2013 at 21:49

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 22:07
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - leafydrive

Perfect thats what I wanted to hear :) I was worried that the 100bhp would be underpowered. I imagine the Fabia 1.9 would be very similar then in terms of power and long-distance comfort?

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Wed 2 Jan 2013 23:36
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - Avant

If your budget will run to it, go for one with a 6-speed gearbox, which will be more economical on motorways.

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 09:25
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - Big John

"If your budget will run to it, go for one with a 6-speed gearbox, which will be more economical on motorways."

I don't think in some installations the 6 speed box is any more economical on motorways as you can still end up with a similar top gear drive ratios. You get more gears in-between though - although with all that torque you don't need them. My Superb pd 100 5 speed does approx 30mph per 1000 rpm.

Worth a test drive of both versions.

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 10:47
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - leafydrive

I think I now understand the gear ratio thing :) Thanks bigJohn.

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 10:49
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - 659FBE

John, your Superb is geared for 33 mph per 1000 engine rpm in top if you have standard tyres. The 6 speed box with the self-destruct pinion bearings gives 35 mph which equates to a difference of a mere 120 engine rpm at 70 mph.

Interestingly, we have in the family two identical cars (Superb and Audi A4) with the same engines and tyre sizes, one 5 and the other 6 speed. The 5 speed version is much the nicer to drive; the massive torque of the AWX engine making close ratios and frequent gear changes unnecessary. The gearchange on the 5 speed unit is more precise - and you get synchromesh on reverse.

Possibly a pointless refinement but very handy when manipulating a trailer in a confined space. Synchromesh units are "double sided" so you might as well use the whole lot if the total number of ratios is an even number.

A high geared car (with cruise if liked) is a real blessing for motorway use.

659.

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 11:48
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - unthrottled

Possibly a pointless refinement but very handy when manipulating a trailer in a confined space.

Or turning a car round in the road when you realise that you're lost in unfamiliar territory. It still surprises me how long it takes the layshaft to spin down when the gear oil gets hot-and how long it takes to the gearbox to get warm. You never grind reverse in the supermarket carpark!

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 19:36
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - Big John

I didn't know the 6 speed box didn't have a reverse syncro. I must admit it is one of the things I've got used too on my Superb.

Does the 5 speed reverse syncromesh only relate to N/S engine configurations (Audi A4, A6, old Passat, Superb I) but not Transverse configurations (Ibiza, Polo, Golf, Octavia etc... )?

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 21:03
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - RT

Do you do a lot of reversing?

I'm too young to remember the totally non-syncro "crash" gearboxes but my younger years were spent on cars with syncro only on 2,3 and 4 - syncro on 1st was useful but less relevant on modern gearboxes with 5, 6 or more gears where 2nd is useable for most starts.

Biggest problem with scrunching reverse gear used to be engaging it before fully stationary, not the lack of syncro.

But all that waffle is from an old-timer who's had automatics for a couple of decades !!

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 21:34
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - unthrottled

The synchro on first is often all but useless anyway. It's a big cog with a big reduction from 2nd. By the time you've got it in, you've stopped!

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Thu 3 Jan 2013 21:14
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - craig-pd130

John, your Superb is geared for 33 mph per 1000 engine rpm in top if you have standard tyres. The 6 speed box with the self-destruct pinion bearings gives 35 mph which equates to a difference of a mere 120 engine rpm at 70 mph.

The Passat B5.5s with the 6-speed box must have used a different final drive ratio, my old Passat 'Sport' used to give 32mph / 1000rpm in 6th.

The ratios were very well matched to the AVF engine, 4th gear was 22.5mph/1000rpm which was perfect for A-road overtaking punch as you were almost always around the peak of the torque curve.

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Fri 4 Jan 2013 16:15
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - corax

I've driven an Ibiza 100PD. In no way would I call it under powered. Lot's of torque in a small body means it accelerates very well - in fact it surprised me how quickly it got up to speed joining motorways, and all with low revs.

More of a problem for me personally is that you are very concious of what is a fairly rough engine, as it's a big lump in a small car, very noticeable when accelerating from low speeds, or idling. But ideal for motorways with its high gearing as long as you don't mind a firm ride.

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Sat 5 Jan 2013 01:20
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - Cyd

Buy the 99PS version and then have it chipped. Simples!

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Sun 6 Jan 2013 15:12
Seat Ibiza 1.9 tdi - 99bhp vs 130bhp - I can't decide - tanvir

Back in the day, my dad had a Passat 1.9TDI 100.

On the many occasions we had 4 in the car plus luggage, it was fine performance wise.

I currently drive a Focus 1.6 100 petrol, which isn't slow - and that's a petrol. A diesel with the same bhp would be quicker still in the real world.

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