They are progresive improvement software programs and the owner of the rights to this software is quite entitled to do what they want.
Only in Europe - in the US there has to be much more openness as far as cars go.
I can get free online access to the workshop manual and Technical Service Bulletins for the US version of my car but can't get the same for my UK version, not even at a price.
Manufacturers aren't disadvantaged by this - because they ALL have to do it.
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In the US they only release what they think necessary it is not open season on software you can get all the information you require in Europe but the owner of software is the legal owner and the UK,Mainland Europe and the US must pay as required.The fact some software is free does not make it yours, the legal owner has decided not to charge in some instances what they can do and what they do do are two completely different things.Try getting the latest software from GM regarding their new models almost impossible both here and the US.There is a tremendous difference in getting manuals which are easy to get and the latest ECU software.
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But is that a valid and fair stance in the motoring sector? Especially if the software might resolve or improve safety-related features, eg, braking system, auto headlight sensitivity etc.
Anyone with a computer or smartphone (almost everyone) expects free OS software patches and upgrades, before the next major software version comes along. Why should a car be any different.
I'd say Volvo's stance is open to several challenges.
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As always the customer has the answer, don't buy into it, or buy from a maker who doesn't treat their customer as a cash cow with contempt when servicing or other back up is required.
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As always the customer has the answer, don't buy into it, or buy from a maker who doesn't treat their customer as a cash cow with contempt when servicing or other back up is required.
+1
I find the attitudes of car buyers confusing. Do no research and then complain..
And then buy again.
No wonder they get stiffed. Must be the Nanny State breeding out intelligence and common sense.
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With our Kia Ceed the dealer checks for any updates when the car is booked in for a service, so far none but if there are they are FOC.
Our BMW had a software update, dealer checked VIN/Reg at reception and work was FOC.
Our Focus had a software update FOC.
Our Mondeo had a software update, FOC.
So who are the delaers charging for this work.
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So who are the delaers charging for this work.
I think the original post was not about dealers charging for software updates, but about the fact that such updates were not available to independents.
Dealer updates may be FOC as part of a dealer service, are they still free if that is all you ask the dealer to do?
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In '06 my Astra had a software update FOC. It was done automatically by my dealer. I know, however, from reading VX forums, that owners had to ask for it at some dealers and were charged.
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This makes depressing reading. It's not inconceivable that OEMs would build in 'glitches' to software and then release chargeable updates on a drip-feed basis to provide a steady source of income for the dealerships. Of course, dealerships could waive the fee for 'loyal' customers ie people willing to pay £200 for an oil filter every year.
P.S. I've noticed that the Sunday Times is rather prone to sensationalist 'scoops' that no other paper follows up in the following week, and you hear little of it again.
Edited by unthrottled on 31/12/2012 at 13:00
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i suppose that i am one of those rare people, I am happy with my dealer, (who charges an acceptable rate for labour) does his job properly, and get warranty work done without problems, but there again, i am happy to pay for my dealer servicing so that my warranty is valid and then at at the end of the warranty period i can buy another car if i wish.
Problem as i have said before is that people want cheap in the uk. If a manufacturer wants to charge for updates to customers outside its service network or not provide them that is their choice!
How many of you pay to upgrade your sat navs every year, some it is free, some you pay. If a manufacturer were to charge £70 for a software update and the indie were to charge £60 for an hour, I wonder how many would pay?
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Problem as i have said before is that people want cheap in the uk. If a manufacturer wants to charge for updates to customers outside its service network or not provide them that is their choice!
I agree with the first statement. All the 'free' extras people expect nowadays have to paid for somewhere down the line, increasingly via hidden or administration charges.
I don't agree with the idea that software updates for hardware should be chargeable. For a start, the marginal cost of a software update is essentially zero. Secondly, If I've bought the rights to use an example of a product, I expect the product to be optimised during the design process. If the original software wasn't up to scratch, then I'm not receiving the full benefit of my product that I have purchased. Why should anyone be expected to pay for substandard control software to be corrected?
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Problem as i have said before is that people want cheap in the uk. If a manufacturer wants to charge for updates to customers outside its service network or not provide them that is their choice!
I agree with the first statement. All the 'free' extras people expect nowadays have to paid for somewhere down the line, increasingly via hidden or administration charges.
I don't agree with the idea that software updates for hardware should be chargeable. For a start, the marginal cost of a software update is essentially zero. Secondly, If I've bought the rights to use an example of a product, I expect the product to be optimised during the design process. If the original software wasn't up to scratch, then I'm not receiving the full benefit of my product that I have purchased. Why should anyone be expected to pay for substandard control software to be corrected?
Trouble is: any fool can upgrade a PC software for free via the internet.
With a car it is mnore complex and requires tools and a mechanic/technician.
That costs real money..
My advice (as usual) is never buy from a dealer who gives such carp service. Buy a car from the dealers who upgrade foc if needed. See Honda and Toyota. Buy a Ford/GM Renault etc? Service? Joke.
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With a car it is mnore complex and requires tools and a mechanic/technician.
Sometimes it is as simple as plugging a laptop into the diagnostics port and downloading the software. Not always, I concede.
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Trouble is: any fool can upgrade a PC software for free via the internet.
With a car it is more complex and requires tools and a mechanic/technician.
That costs real money..
Who's to blame for that - the manufacturer or the customer ?
Given that there's an ever-increasing number of computers in cars, it's time that manufacturers designed better ways of updating them.
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Trouble is: any fool can upgrade a PC software for free via the internet.
With a car it is more complex and requires tools and a mechanic/technician.
That costs real money..
Who's to blame for that - the manufacturer or the customer ?
Given that there's an ever-increasing number of computers in cars, it's time that manufacturers designed better ways of updating them.
Anyone buying a car - and keeping it for years - or buying a used car has a choice.
Do no research and the customer is to blame for the problems encountered.
But then most customers do no research - see the posts on thsi forum with the problems they incur from arrogance or badly designed cars...
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I've got an ECU problem in that, on odd occasions, when I start the engine, the Cruise Control light flashes and the Engine Fault alarm lights up steady. This occurs for one or two days, possibly three, and then doesn't do it again for up to four months. I took it back to the main dealer on numerous occasions, leaving the car with them for days, but in spite of their efforts the problem was never traced. Eventually a more experienced technician tested it and found that it was a spurious signal that only occured at the start and then cancelled itself. In all other respects the car is reliable and comfortable, and suits my needs.
Recently, a dealer in a different town offered a 'free' service that prepared the car for winter and update the ECU with the latest version of the software. Because it is a difficult place for me to get to I asked whether the particular problem had been dealt with and the answer was that they don't know, just turn up and trust to luck. When I tried to get more information from the company's head office the young lady at the branch repied and said that she wasn't sure that she'd made herself clear, I had to turn up and trust.
Apart from nominating herself 'Salesperson of the Year', if the updates caused further problems then I would be in a mess. So I'm, as yet, not availing myself.
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>>Trouble is: any fool can upgrade a PC software for free via the internet.
As an IT technician I take real offense to this kind of attitude!
If any fool can do it why are there lots of computers the world over that are not updated? How many owners have updated their computer to find that it no longer boots/ POSTs/ no sound/ no display/ no internet - yeah it's foolproof.
To look at it slightly differently I could assume that I'm thick and nothing more than a snake oil merchant.I could assume you're ignorant.
However the view I take is that most computer owners are of the opinion that such devices are different to most other things when it come to service or repairs, most owners are happy to pay money for a 'tradesman' to plumb in their washer, fix their toaster/washing machine, etc. but for computers the knowledge is worthless and 'I' should be able to fix it myself or find out how to do it for nothing. This attitude helps no one. Personally I get asked for help frequently and usually give it for free or a few tins of the black stuff however I expect that other 'tradesmen' return the favour.
Any fool can flash a cars EMU with a Galletto/KWP clone but whether it starts and runs correctly is another matter.
Steve.
Edited by glowplug on 04/01/2013 at 12:27
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