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Tue 25 Dec 2012 02:09

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - countryroads

As im new, and im waiting up on Christmas morning sorting stuff out for the younger members of the family, I thought I would post, with some background etc incase my responses are read elsewhere!

I have worked in the motor trade for a number of years, both in repair and in sales for 2 major manufacturers. A huge amount of cars have passed through my hands, both personally and through work and this has meant ive been at the sharp end of many problems and issues with pretty much everything. I have strict requirements for my cars and there are only a few I will spend my own money on.

To that end, the only car I have ever kept is an older car, 1998 Audi A4 1.8 T Sport. For many reasons; its electronic enough to be simple to diagnose, but mechanical enough to be tough. It has done 140k miles now, but through good maintenance and sensible but spirited use, everything mechanical is original, except belts, tensioners the radiator and service parts. Clutch and turbo are original, no modern diesels for me!

For anoraks, its the AEB engine, the strongest of them all, with the big valves, external waterpump and cable throttle.

Miles achieved through 6k or 6month oil changes with fully synth oil, warming up and warming down with the occasional thrashing and top speed autobahning. It will still do 140mph when needed. However in the real world, the UK, it averages 37mpg.

However, I'm currently treating it to an 'overhaul' of sorts. New clutch, turbo, oil cooler, water pump, suspension arms and wheel bearings, all of which have never been touched. Im looking forward to driving it feeling brand new again as any decline has been so gradual as to be invisible! Preventative, and improvements, dont want to see the hard shoulder any time soon, and I love her so shes worth it...Damn sight cheaper than anything new!

Its not standard though, Eibach springs and uprated dampers, 18inch BBS LM wheels externally. The standard Audi Concert with BOSE has also been upgraded to modern MP3 type jobs. Maybe im passionate about it because I've worked for VAG, maybe because she is so depedable, who knows.

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Tue 25 Dec 2012 17:09

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - Avant

Welcome to the forum and I hope you got some sleep eventually!

Your professional view would be interesting as to whether you think Audis and VAG cars in general have slipped in quality since yours was new. I've had VAG cars since 2001 and all have been reliable, but I've been lucky enough to buy them new and change them after 2 to 3 years. Problems usually happen when they're out of warranty, especially with the 7-speed DSG that I've asked about in another thread.

Honest John gets accused sometimes of being anti-VAG, but he can only report on the many problems that readers ask him about.

Quality slippage happened to Mercedes and Renault in the last decde - VAG too?

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Wed 26 Dec 2012 01:19

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - countryroads

Thanks for the welcome, and yes eventually sleep was had!

In my honest opinion, I think the quality has dropped over the years, as with Mercedes etc too. Quality is hard to define however, is it the feel of switches, the noise the doors make while shutting, or the reliability of the mechanics?

For example, I drove one of the first MK5 Golfs ever made, and it was not as 'nice' a place to be as a late MK4. Shiny plastics, too much noise and of course, a little too dear. It is true to say they spent all their money on that platform however, and it has proved to be basically excellent and underpins a huge number of cars. Its the details, the PD engines, the DSG boxes, trim rattles, multi piece doors all of whice can get hugely costly after warranty. Even the stereos are a bit weak and of course not covered by warranty after 12 months if I recall.

There was a big jump from MK5 to Mk6 in perceived and actual quality, they went back to a simple door construction for example, cheaper and quicker to build yes, but less likely to rattle.

I myself am somewhat anti VAG, but more due to how expensive they are on the used market due to a 'perceived' quality and reputation they dont always deserve. I have also worked for Hyundai UK and despite the still slightly obvious shortcomings of the product, the engineering is so far proving to be sound.

If I drive a new A4 today, I want one...however the quality of plastics etc is still broadly similar to my old one (mine listed at £27k new inc options!! rip off!) the drive suffers from huge weight and usually being a diesel (not a diesel fan by the way!)

To summarise, in 10 years time, I dont see a huge number of these cars with decent miles, still being able to give an average user a few years of cheap reliable transport like the older cars could. Massive complexity doesnt help, but to cram all that within a car that still lists for the same price as a much more basic model from 1998, implies that cost cutting measures must have been put in place, and drastically. All newer cars are equal in that respect, but some are more equal than others!

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Wed 26 Dec 2012 20:22

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - Avant

Many thanks - very interesting, and rather as I suspected. The increased complexity of some components, and consequent cost-cutting of other areas, is probably not confined to VAG.

The Japanese, and Toyota in particular, seem to do their cost-cutting in cosmetic areas: you'll find the interior of a Toyota plasticky, but things won't actually fall off and the oily bits will last for years. It's a little too early to say, but I think Hyundai and Kia are going in the same direction. Toyota have joined them in extending their warranty above 3 years, which we can assume is a commercial decision based on confidence in the products.

When I retire in a couple of years' time I'll need to buy a car that will last longer than the 2-3 years I've been keeping them up to now. These factors will be important - but I still enjoy driving even at 64 years old. I wish the Japanese and Koreans could make their cars a little more fun to drive without losing the existing virtues.

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Wed 26 Dec 2012 20:35

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - Ed V

Really interesting post.

You raise a simple question: what do we mean by "quality"?

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 13:12

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - countryroads

I am looking to get a cheapish car to replace my other halfs KA, not a car I was ever pleased to have around frankly but its her first car so in that sense its ideal.

I dont want to spend much but it needs to be reliable for a couple of years and a 4 door this time. Really I think it will end up being a Lexus IS200. They hold up very well and despite being a touch juicy they are very nice to drive.....however, have you seen the switches inside it!

The heated seat buttons look straight from the 80s, they keys are naff and everything has that shiny shiny japansese look to it. Not as nice as anything VAG really. But they are tough as old boots in the grand scheme, no rattles and apart from the odd dodgy CD player seem able to handle whats thrown its way. Plus plenty of lowish mileage, less than 70k cars for under £2k! Can barely get a Fiesta for that. It doesnt look high quality inside though.

'Build Quality' and 'Handling' are words that get bandied around in road tests. There is a difference between grip and handling which is lost on many, and build quality doesnt mean a damped glovebox lid! I could rant for hours on this though frankly but I wont ha!

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 13:27

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - gordonbennet

IS200, excellent car, probably one of the best cars of that type ever made, very tough like a little tank, i know a chap who went off straight off a flyover and ended up on its roof on the M25, everyone walked away.

I wish cars were still made like this, couldn't give a monkeys what the switchgear looks like, so long as it works and what it operates still works.

The only thing i would say is make sure its got good quality tyres, i delivered a goodly number of these when new and very prone to wheelspin in the damp especially the 300, obviously controlled by the traction but as with other RWD's not a place to fit Chinese ditchfinders to.

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 13:35

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - countryroads

Couldnt agree more about the tyres, not that I buy cheapies anyway frankly but on these its particularly important. A good friend of mine used to sell them new back in the day and still raves about them now. Uniroyal Rainsport 2 seems ideal to me for this car, of course it wont be going anywhere in the snow!

The only annoyance is the mid 20s mpg, but if im not paying out monthly for it and everyone in it is safe and sound, who cares!

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 14:41

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - galileo

Years ago the operator at a skidpan I went to told me they had been offered free tyres by Uniroyal for their skidpan cars (Cortinas, Austin Westminster etc).

He said, having tried them, they were no good as it was too difficult to provoke skids with them, so went back to fitting Michelin X's.

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 16:29

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - Bobbin Threadbare

I have Uniroyal Rainsports on my MX-5. It's hard to get excited about tyres but they are very grippy and good quality!

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 16:31

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - gordonbennet

Don't remind me of Michelin X's Galileo, lasted forever but frightened the living daylights out of you, i learned an awful lot about vehicle control and tyres druing my early years driving cars and then 7.5 ton lorries fitted with the things, my most memorable moment being a full bore oversteer in a 7.5 tonner Ford D series @ 30 mph on an M8 curve in roughly 1973 when it can only just have been opened, i was going too fast for the curve..:)...edit...it might not have been M8 the but it was 3 lane elevated section missing out the wondrous London Road lights etc.

I owned a Ventora at the time, that was fitted with Michelin ZX's, fine in the dry but 4 wheel steering once damp, scrapped the things and put a set of the then new Goodyear Unisteels on, different car after that, tyre lesson learned forever.

Agree with Uniroyals, been an excellent and good value all weather tyre for as long as i can recall, used to be called The Rain Tyre years ago.

My LPG chap assures me that Lexus' he's converted are still covering starship mileages after conversion if thats of any interest (asked because one was a possibility a while ago), we have two LPG cars now, one MB one Mitsi, my only regret is that we didn't do so years ago.

''edit...I have Uniroyal Rainsports on my MX-5. It's hard to get excited about tyres but they are very grippy and good quality!''

Vredestein Sportracs get well reported for your car too Bobbin, it amazes me just how many people will spend fortunes on their cars, best polishes, upgrades, valetting etc and then won't spend an extra £20 each for something that is the only point of contact with the road.

Edited by gordonbennet on 28/12/2012 at 16:37

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 16:40

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - jamie745

Did some moderating gremlin delete my reply on this thread?

Little harsh!

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 19:42

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - galileo

GB, re your exciting incident with the Ford D series, when the D series first came out Jim Clark drove one round Brands Hatch, lapped at over 50 mph I think but wore the tyres out in only a few laps.

(This was one of the first turbo versions, up from n/a 90 to 150 bhp with the turbo)

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Fri 28 Dec 2012 20:14

Audi A4 - A starter from me! - Bobbin Threadbare

''edit...I have Uniroyal Rainsports on my MX-5. It's hard to get excited about tyres but they are very grippy and good quality!''
Vredestein Sportracs get well reported for your car too Bobbin, it amazes me just how many people will spend fortunes on their cars, best polishes, upgrades, valetting etc and then won't spend an extra £20 each for something that is the only point of contact with the road.

I will bear that in mind when I come to buy new tyres - it's the only 'car' thing I dislike researching for some reason, and the recommendations on here are handy.

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