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All - Mis-Diagnoses - nestor

Recent experience, and several others I have read about recently, shows me that electronic diagnistics is not always accurate or reliable and you end up paying for expensive electronic units that are not needed.
A long standing problem led to several visits to the main dealer who diagnosed 3 faults before cured, paying out hundreds each time, and only after insisting on dealing direct with the electical technician was the problem solved.
Expensive electronic components were replaced each time, none of which were returned to me, before the fault was isolated.
The car on each occasion was left without limit of time as it was of no use to us with the fault present.
No offer was made to revert back to the old good parts, or even find them - it was obvious there was no attempt made to keep them or test them off the vehicle.
I am now out several hundred pounds on top of having to find more to replace the real culpret - an entertainment unit.
Invariably I am told that their diagnosicts is fool-proof and the parts were not replaced in vein, but common sense tells one otherwise.
Am I within my rights to insist on the return of these old good components, failing which I receive some form of compensation?
I am considering court action as I feel the onus is on the dealership to prove the parts replaced were defective, to return them or to come up with the evidence or a refund?
I think I should let a judge decide, am I in the right or not?
I think mis-diagnosis on modern cars is a real consumer problem, as I think many parts are being replaced unnecessarily - it's only in cases such as mine, were the real problem still exists after replacement , and the fault is intermitent, that you find this out.
Opinions please.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - madf

Name the manufacturer please (not the dealer) ,,,

Many faults do not result in any engine warning - eg EGR valves blocked.

Most main dealers use people who any competent garage would reject as incompetent.. but whilst people are prepared to pay via an open ended analysis, can you blame them.?

I have never had a problem with dealers as I only buy cars whose dealers have better quality control than most..

And yes your dealer is a thieving **** but I doubt a court case will win unless you go the Small Claims after doing everything in writing first..

All - Mis-Diagnoses - injection doc

"Most main dealers use people who any competent garage would reject as incompetent.. but whilst people are prepared to pay via an open ended analysis, can you blame them.?"

Yep I will 2nd that ! Most dealers accountants wont stretch the the cost of a proper diagnostic technician ! as experince cost money. Found that for the last 35+ years in the trade that Dealers whislt they charge the most pay the least and some very good independants pay top money for quality staff !

Dealers are in the position where they have access to most parts anytime and can swap from car to car ! an independant has to get it right.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - Collos25

Was the entertainment centre standard equipment or aftermarket and how far was the vehicle out of warranty.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - SteveLee

Dealer "mechanics" these days are often fitters, they do not have the knowledge or experience to use diagnostics appropriately, fault codes are often symptoms of other problems, i.e. a bad lambda reading can often be related to mechanical issues - but they'll still replace the sensor first before doing anything else wasting the customer's money needlessly.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - MrEckerslikefromRamsbottom

We are hearing so many stories of garages changing failed, or apparently failed, parts without first looking for what might have caused that failure. After all, many car parts could potentially last the life of the car. We are still hearing about garages changing Ford Focus turbos and then being 'surprised' that the replacement lasts only a hundred miles, because they say that they've 'never heard' about the sludge-blocked oilways problem! Even we chaps and chapesses who read this forum alone are familiar with such problems. Why isn't the trade?

All - Mis-Diagnoses - unthrottled

Even we chaps and chapesses who read this forum alone are familiar with such problems. Why isn't the trade?

Whilst your car is working, mechanics and technicians have the social status and pay grade slightly above supermarket checkout staff. This has an inevitable knock-on affect on the calibre of entrants to the trade.

This attitude has been endemic in this country for a long time. We get the mechanics we deserve.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - madf

As most owners refuse to pay for competent diagnostics and get it free# here, are you surprised?

# and it's worth every penny paid for it :-)

All - Mis-Diagnoses - 72 dudes

Even we chaps and chapesses who read this forum alone are familiar with such problems. Why isn't the trade?

Whilst your car is working, mechanics and technicians have the social status and pay grade slightly above supermarket checkout staff. This has an inevitable knock-on affect on the calibre of entrants to the trade.

This attitude has been endemic in this country for a long time. We get the mechanics we deserve.

Agreed, and the other thing to blame is the bonus/target culture which has wound its incidious way into virtually all areas, not just "sales"

Technicians and some Service/Aftercare staff (in main dealers) have to upsell parts/services to meet their targets, otherwise they will get a poor review and will eventually be out of a job.

Worringly, I've even seen Bodyshop Advisor jobs quoted as having an "on target earnings" salary - (hand me that hammer, this front wing needs to more dented for me to hit my target!)

All - Mis-Diagnoses - John F

Recent experience, and several others I have read about recently, shows me that electronic diagnistics is not always accurate or reliable and you end up paying for expensive electronic units that are not needed.

Opinions please.

I have sympathy for mechanics trying to fix electronic problems. If they are intermittent, like certain heart electrical problems, they can be very difficult to diagnose without attaching a 24hr diagnostic monitor. Do these exist in the motor trade?

I remember years ago our Passat GL5 would just suddenly cut out, then restart after about 30minutes 'rest'. Most unnerving as you never knew when it would happen. Took ages to diagnose a faulty hall sender deep in the innards of the distributor.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - craig-pd130

Recent experience, and several others I have read about recently, shows me that electronic diagnistics is not always accurate or reliable and you end up paying for expensive electronic units that are not needed.
A long standing problem led to several visits to the main dealer who diagnosed 3 faults before cured, paying out hundreds each time, and only after insisting on dealing direct with the electical technician was the problem solved.
Expensive electronic components were replaced each time, none of which were returned to me, before the fault was isolated.
The car on each occasion was left without limit of time as it was of no use to us with the fault present.
No offer was made to revert back to the old good parts, or even find them - it was obvious there was no attempt made to keep them or test them off the vehicle.
I am now out several hundred pounds on top of having to find more to replace the real culpret - an entertainment unit.
Invariably I am told that their diagnosicts is fool-proof and the parts were not replaced in vein, but common sense tells one otherwise.
Am I within my rights to insist on the return of these old good components, failing which I receive some form of compensation?

I suspect you would probably have to state to the service staff BEFORE they start work on the car that you want the old parts kept and returned to you -- and either you or they would have to write it on the service instructions -- in order to have a case that would stand up in court.

As an earlier poster said, main dealer service staff are in the main, just fitters, doing what the diagnostic codes tell them.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - RT

I suspect you would probably have to state to the service staff BEFORE they start work on the car that you want the old parts kept and returned to you -- and either you or they would have to write it on the service instructions -- in order to have a case that would stand up in court.

As an earlier poster said, main dealer service staff are in the main, just fitters, doing what the diagnostic codes tell them.

Even when you do that, they don't bother half the time - in my experience.

All - Mis-Diagnoses - injection doc

"Recent experience, and several others I have read about recently, shows me that electronic diagnistics is not always accurate or reliable and you end up paying for expensive electronic units that are not needed."

That is a staff issue and not a fault of the diagnostics ! too many fitters just go by the fault code and slap a part on. Diagnostics is an art & a skill & must be fully understood before attempting.

As a crude example an Oxygen sensor fault may occur on a car and a fitter will fit a new sensor, an experinced tech will take the live readings of the oxy sensor and then normally read the fuel correction percentage and decide whether its a sensor or an air leak ( most common) or a fuel pressure reg causing over fuelling detremined by the fuelling correction precentages.. Just a simple example of how a simple fault can turn into an expensive one if a non trained person delves into the unknown !

Problem i have found is Garages are not willing to pay for training ! in house training one to one with real problem cars is the best way