If the DS5 rode nicely, I would buy one - absolutely no question. I'm very disappointed with Citroën. Why don't they fit their hydromatic suspension system to a soft-roader car? Surely it's the perfect fit?
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I don't usually join these forums but felt I should stand up for my car.
Yes, I am the owner of a DS5 DSport Hybrid4 (I think around 260 have been regsitered so far) and I can't believe the comments about the ride quality from anyone who has tested it, this model in particular.
I road tested the diesel as well as this which does not have exactly the same suspension and found you did feel the potholes but no worse than any other similar car however in the hybrid I hardly notice any bumps at all.
It's by far the quiestest, smoothest riding car I've ever been in (not just driven) though in the past I did tend to buy sports coupes which obviously do have a rougher ride and have owned some 4wds.
I actually bought the car I demo-ed and have owned it for about 7 weeks now, it really is a superb car to drive particularly in sport mode. My only gripes are that there's a fair bit of reflection in the windcsreen on sunny days (if we ever get them again) from the dash and the very small lever for changing automatic modes means I often accidentally put it into manual mode rather than automatic (from neutral) without knowing it but then this is my first automatic so it could just be me. But I think the ride is excellent and I'm shocked by the reviewers saying it's not, most of which I'd read before I tested it.
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I don't usually join these forums but felt I should stand up for my car. Yes, I am the owner of a DS5 DSport Hybrid4 (I think around 260 have been regsitered so far) and I can't believe the comments about the ride quality from anyone who has tested it, this model in particular. I road tested the diesel as well as this which does not have exactly the same suspension and found you did feel the potholes but no worse than any other similar car however in the hybrid I hardly notice any bumps at all. It's by far the quiestest, smoothest riding car I've ever been in (not just driven) though in the past I did tend to buy sports coupes which obviously do have a rougher ride and have owned some 4wds. I actually bought the car I demo-ed and have owned it for about 7 weeks now, it really is a superb car to drive particularly in sport mode. My only gripes are that there's a fair bit of reflection in the windcsreen on sunny days (if we ever get them again) from the dash and the very small lever for changing automatic modes means I often accidentally put it into manual mode rather than automatic (from neutral) without knowing it but then this is my first automatic so it could just be me. But I think the ride is excellent and I'm shocked by the reviewers saying it's not, most of which I'd read before I tested it.
What car(s) did you used to drive? If you think the DS5 rides well then you must be used to German rubbish. The DS5 is not in the same league as the (in reverse order of acceptability) C5mk1, C5mk2, BX, Xantia, C6, XM, CX, DS - It's another lousy boneshaker and you do not know what you are talking about. We don't want cars that ride like "similar cars" we want proper Citroëns. Does it matter how well they sell? Peugeots should be the cannon-fodder fleet sales, Citroëns use 90% of the PSA platform(s) to keep costs down, just fit them with their magic Oleomatic suspension and leave "the ordinary" to Peugeot. BMW buyers are not going to buy Citroëns, Mercedes buyers are not going to buy Citroëns, Audi buyers are not going to buy Citroëns, VW buyers are not going to buy Citroëns - why marginalise core Citroën customers in a bid to tempt the kind of people who would never drive with two chevrons on their bonnet?
The people responsible for marketing strategy within PSA should be sacked, Citroën are marketed as the budget option, C1, C2, C3 ,C4 and as a premium brand DS3, DS5 (with more DS's to follow) with Peugeot stuck somewhere in the middle but sporting a high-end super car!. What's going on? There has never been a more confusing brand placement. Just make Citroëns comforable - comfortable sod everything else and Peugeot the bread-and-butter brand. The bourgeois are not going to buy Citroëns over other trendier products. Sort it you knobs.
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Glad you like your DS5 Hybrid, you have a unique car.
As I think I said in the summary, Citroen would have a winner if the diesel model (which the majoroty of customers will buy) rode like a proper Citroen.
Does the Hybrid have hydropneumatic suspension or smaller wheels? If not I can't see how the Hybrid would be much different?
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No it hasn't got that suspension what it has got over the standard is is the following (which I'm quoting):
"A sophisticated multi-link rear suspension is used which actually improves the ride quality over the standard models"
I have the 19" wheels which also must degrade the ride quality and the diesel I tested had the 18" wheels which should have improved it.
I personally don't think the ride quality is massively different to the standard diesel, having said that though my wife (who has also driven both) said she noticed more of a difference and thinks the hybrid is significantly softer.
Putting the ride quality into context though, it's poor in comparison to what? This car is designed as a luxury sports hatch\coupe but what other sports coupe's or hatches have a softer ride, all the ones I've been in are much harsher in comparison.
I do agree that you definitely notice the bash of potholes (though it doesn't effect car control like some have said) but ordinary rough surfaces are almost unnoticable and you don't get much bad road noise on poorer road surfaces, it's a very quiet cabin for this class of car.
I should point out that the only other Citroen I've owned\driven is a diesel C2 so I can't compare the DS5 to the "armchair comfort of old", I have been a passenger in one of the old ones though and I guess that nothing is going to ever come close to that unless it does use that same suspension. What I will say is that I think the ride quality matches or beats that of the popular German equivalents as does the quiet and luxurious cabin and most of those German ones cost a lot more.
Obviously these are my views only, based on my 2 months of hybrid ownership and 1 diesel model road test of around 1 hour.
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Essentually what you're saying is the DS5 rides like a normal modern car - i.e. not very well. Which is what us old (proper) Citroën fans are bemoaning the loss of. The last bastions of good ride quality (Jaguar) are now making cars which are set up German-hard to keep the idiot young-turk road-testers happy.
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My point is that it actually doesn't ride as well as a normal modern car.
On the one hand it is firm to the point of harshness, on the other it does not have the steering feel or cornering ability of the Germans.
I do agree with newDS that it is very quiet and luxurious inside - all the more reason to make it ride like an old school Citroen.
I've driven a new C5 saloon (VTR+, non hydropnuematic) and that had a lovely combination of ride comfort and OK handling.
After the 24 hours in the DS5 I got back into my own 5 year old Volvo S40 2.0D - yes there was more engine and road noise, but no jiggling or harshness on the same roads. A model not especially known for its great ride.
Edited by 72 dudes on 03/12/2012 at 20:29
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Yes, my impression of the DS5 is it's b***** awful. But some people find that to be acceptable! Some BMW models are unbearable but then still sell like hot cakes - stick a BMW badge on a turd and it'll still sell well. The Rover 75 was beautifully supple over bumps, but it didn't set the world alight round a race track (despite actually handling tidily) so the journos slated it and nobody bought it. If people actually tested cars themselves and bought what they need (and want) over marketing/image b******s cars would be much more comfortable.
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As I stated in my 1st comment, I don't normally join these forums and comments like those (from Steve Lee) are the reason why. I don't understand why some people dislike something like a car so much, I can't work up that much hate for anything let alone a car. It's all just opinion, no-one is right or wrong.
Everybody has different taste and I prefer cars with a sporty side to them which often means a stiffer suspension but usually good to drive. I haven't owned Citroens all my life like some seem to have, I've owned a variety of makes (none German) including 1 other Citroen (C2) and driven lots of different makes (including German ones) .
I also only ever buy cars I want, not cars that someone else like yourself or the marketing guys want me to buy, but you can only go buy what you see, read and then try for yourself.
I stand by my comment that the DS5 I own is the most comfortable car that I have driven (that's just me not everybody) and I believe that it is better than most current cars in it's class. I personally don't know of one in the class that beats it's comfort and quality though I haven't tried them all. This brings me to the comment about "people finding current cars to be acceptable", surely they are the only cars we can buy now or else they wouldn't be "current cars" so what on earth is the alternative? They are certainly all I can realistically compare it to.
I had a friend with a Rover 75 who loved it, I was in it a few times and I personally never really liked it as a passenger, I rolled and bounced around in it. I remember distinctly on one occasion wondering if it would pull out into a roundabout before we were sideswiped by a bus, though that may have been down to the driver. If you think that was a better car than the DS5 then I personally don't get it, to me you have rose-tinted glasses looking into the past.
Fair comment from 72 dudes if that's how you feel about those 2 older cars, though I obviously don't see it myself. I'd be interested to see if anyone else tested the hybrid as well as the diesel to see if they think the suspension changes does make a difference.
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Is`the rear leg room in the D5 as bad as the C5?
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I did sit in the back briefly and to be honest it seemed OK to me.
Can't remember what the C5 saloon is like in the rear, but better than my S40!
By the way I saw my first DS5 on the road today, a silver one pulling in to a BP station, couldn't tell what model it was.
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The c5 is probably the worst big saloon for rear leg room, the new 508 is equally as bad or possibly slighty better.
Are the c5 and 508 essentially the same car?
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Are the c5 and 508 essentially the same car?
Well, they share the same platform and most engines.
The C5 rides well, while the mags say the 508 doesn't but I'll reserve judgement until I've been in my sister's 508 SW.
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As I stated in my 1st comment, I don't normally join these forums and comments like those (from Steve Lee) are the reason why. I don't understand why some people dislike something like a car so much, I can't work up that much hate for anything let alone a car. It's all just opinion, no-one is right or wrong.
Everybody has different taste and I prefer cars with a sporty side to them which often means a stiffer suspension but usually good to drive. I haven't owned Citroens all my life like some seem to have, I've owned a variety of makes (none German) including 1 other Citroen (C2) and driven lots of different makes (including German ones) .
I also only ever buy cars I want, not cars that someone else like yourself or the marketing guys want me to buy, but you can only go buy what you see, read and then try for yourself.
I stand by my comment that the DS5 I own is the most comfortable car that I have driven (that's just me not everybody) and I believe that it is better than most current cars in it's class. I personally don't know of one in the class that beats it's comfort and quality though I haven't tried them all. This brings me to the comment about "people finding current cars to be acceptable", surely they are the only cars we can buy now or else they wouldn't be "current cars" so what on earth is the alternative? They are certainly all I can realistically compare it to.
I had a friend with a Rover 75 who loved it, I was in it a few times and I personally never really liked it as a passenger, I rolled and bounced around in it. I remember distinctly on one occasion wondering if it would pull out into a roundabout before we were sideswiped by a bus, though that may have been down to the driver. If you think that was a better car than the DS5 then I personally don't get it, to me you have rose-tinted glasses looking into the past.
Fair comment from 72 dudes if that's how you feel about those 2 older cars, though I obviously don't see it myself. I'd be interested to see if anyone else tested the hybrid as well as the diesel to see if they think the suspension changes does make a difference.
How do you find the ESG gearbox; so many reviews have criticised it. When I drove it it was no where near as smooth as my Lexus, but not so terrible that it was a deal breaker.
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Your views on BMWs, and others, seem illogical and founded on a sort of badge-rage!
Presumably, there's a reason a BMW badge helps the firm to sell cars? Maybe their reputation is to provide what many drivers want rather better than most of their competitors. Perhaps, as you say, Citroen should do the same. It's a simple but effective strategy.
And please, stop using lavatory language on here; it doesn't become you nor the site.
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Can I ask the obvious?
Have you driven one or just read press reports?
One report evev got the average score wrong and despite being pointed out to them it's still there.
Like a couple of other contributors here I'm a happy owner of a DS5 Hybrid4 and it's behaved fault free since purchase about 9 months ago.
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Does the Hybrid have hydropneumatic suspension or smaller wheels? If not I can't see how the Hybrid would be much different?
According to the Telegraph test, the hybrid variant has the same ride as the diesel and is also gifted with a monumentally dreadful transmission.
They reckoned it was a shocking car and the diesel, though still poor, was an order of magnitude better.
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Perhaps an anger management course.................
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I have recently ordered a DS5 Sport Hybrid, and have test driven the larger diesel. I didn't find the ride quality that bad, but did notice that it wasn't of course cushion soft! I currently drive a Lexus IS250, and the ride on that is relatively firm (so much so that when I got it 6 years ago I did think I made a mistake), but it is a bit softer now after changing tyres to Michellins. (Having recently had a complimentary IS250 on the original Dunlops, it is amazing how the tyres do make a difference). The DS5 has all the equipment my Lexus has plus more, but clearly the engine and particularly the gearbox is not as refined. But I chose the Hybrid mainly for car reasons: because the suspension was supposed to be better and it would be a little more powerful, it has 4 wheel drive capability without paying for real off road capability which I would never use (do you really need hill descent?) and because the car looked like it should all be about cutting edge technology (please no arguments about hybrids, you have to deal with the best tech available). Financially, there might not be much difference between the Hybrid and the conventional diesel, if you keep it for 5 years, the savings in fuel and tax might get close to covering the difference in loss of value. There is always the danger the hybrid technology might be a problem and devalue the car though. Finally, the Hybrid ticks the green box!
I am grateful to NewDS for his? comments, as there are so few reviews by people who have actually bought one. This will be my first Citroen, but 3 of the 5 new cars I have had have been Renault. I think there is nothing else like the DS5 around. I have had Lagunas Mk1 and 2 (V6 3.0 versions) and loved them both, and really wanted a new Laguna. But the Mk3 was just pug ugly and not an advance on Mk2, and had nothing special about it. And then Renault withdrew it from the UK. As I wanted a hatchback, the only real competition was the Vauxhall Insignia, Mondeo, the Mazda 6 (my sister has one but the model is now being replaced without a hatchback), and Skoda Octavia or Superb. I think the DS5 is miles ahead of any of these in styling, and is stunning. A Range Rover Evoque is nice, but again has a capability I would never use and is a lot more expensive when you spec it up, plus Land Rover is not that reliable.
When I get the car in March I will answer any questions anyone has.
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I purchased my DS5 Hybrid just before Christmas and have now covered 2.5k miles since purchase. I am not running the air-con or any other extras thay "may" reduce or impare fiel economy. I have not yet seen the 70MPG claimed (in print) within the brochure. I brake gently, accellerate gently and on almost all occasions I keep to the speed limit. I have not even seen even 60MPG.
I sold my Jaguar XF S Portfolio to gain this beast. My wife was not happy the day it arrived and told me that if that's what you want - ok - but it's not a Jag. This was the 278 BHP model and could easily get 42MPG on a decent run. Jaguar had previously heavily target marketed me to have the new (face-lift) XF with the 2.2 diesel engine. This will return 54MPG on a run.
I have driven on urban roads, main A roads and motorways during the past 2.5k running period.
I paid a premium to have the Hybrid and hoped that the diesel/battery combination would give me the much needed economy I was seeking. Money is tight and driving some 24k miles per year should have provided me with a considerable fuel saving. I don't think it will. My company would be gaining and so would I when travelling private mileages.
Does anyone have a similar experience. I had considered writing to the CEO of Citroen !
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Money is tight and driving some 24k miles per year should have provided me with a considerable fuel saving.
If you can't afford fuel, how can you afford a new car?! Hybrid is at it's best with petrol and around town. There's a reason no one else bothered hybridising a diesel-and it wasn't that they hadn't thought of it.On the motorway, the hybrid is just dead weight.
On the plus side, 54mpg isn't shabby for a fairly big car in winter. You've got a crude 4 wheel drive system to boot-which is handy in the snow. As things bed in and the weather warms up, you should be seeing nearly 60mpg-which isn't that awful, is it?
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I used to wonder why there weren't more diesel hybrids around: I think it was you, Unthrottled, who gave good reasons on here why there is little benefit from them and that economy is as good with a straight diesel.
I would be put off big French cars anyway by their horrendous depreciation, although rarity may help the DS5 Hybrid to hold up a little better. I fear Mrs Warpfactor may be right! Did you test drive an XF 2.2, Warpfactor, and still prefer the DS5? I haven't tried either so would be interested to know.
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Given the inability of the French to produce reliable car electronics, I will never buy a French hybrid car until it is proven to work reliably.
As Peugeot cannot even get the 208's elctronics right.. tinyurl.com/a7z8l83
there is little hope for a hybrid..
Edited by madf on 06/02/2013 at 12:54
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Sounds about right....I wouldnt buy one with someone elses money!
I wouldnt want to chuck away the enormous amount of money on a DS5 in depreciation either frankly, unless they are offering a cast iron PCP with an optimistic GFV its got be an expensive car to run for a few years.
I would have gone for a low mileage C6 HDi to be a bit different and even those dont ride properly but saving at least £10k is a bonus!
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A friend has a Prius as a company car. He looked at the Citroen hybrid but after a back to back test drive he said the Prius was light years ahead. The Citroen saleman agreed...
The Citroen hybrid performed very badly in journalist road tests, the ECU getting its knickers twisted several times. Switch off and on job.
Edited by madf on 06/02/2013 at 14:50
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With the deepest respect...£26K for a Citroen? Are you utterly mad! French cars traditionally have EPIC depreciation. Let's hope (for your sake) the Ds5 is different. Stick to my Toyota hybrid thanks,
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I remember the C6 which has a lovely ride... A quick perusal of the Owners Club persuaded me never to buy one.. Epic depreciation on those.
Just imagine any Citroen dealer trying to solve an electrical fault on a hybrid....
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I would have gone for a low mileage C6 HDi to be a bit different and even those dont ride properly but saving at least £10k is a bonus!
C6 dont ride properly ?
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I agree with the comment about the fuel consumption of the Hybrid4 DS5. The most I have managed is 47mpg and that is way below Citroen's official figures. Truth is if Citroen were to admit their figures were widely inaccurate, nobody would even think about spending several thousand more for the hybrid. Frankly, I wish I'd saved my money and purchased the standard 2.0L diesel. A great pity, because everything else about the car is absolutely first class. As for HJ's comments about ride quality, I have never driven the non-hybrid version, so obviously the Hybrid suspension setup must give the car a less firm ride. I note in his video review of the Peugeot Hybrid he had nothing but praise for the vehicle, and (as I understand it) the Citroen DS5 Hybrid is basically exactly the same car, albeit with a different bodyshell and trim, So, surely it stands to reason that if there was nothing untoward about the ride quality of the Peugeot Hybrid, there can be nothing wrong with Citroen Hybrid either.
Edited by mel789 on 12/02/2013 at 20:36
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I think most cars with big MPG claims fall short in the 'real world'. It isn't just citroen. Fiat's Twinair and their 1.3 diesel spring to mind.
The good news is that the flaws in the NEDC have (belatedly) been recognised by the EU and the cycle is due to be replaced by a more aggresive-ie realistic-one.
Quite how we're expected to compare Euro V and Euro VI models tested on different cycles remains to be seen.
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On the subject of Citroen reliability. I have owned a DS3 for the last 3 years and never had a thing go wrong. During the same period my partner has owned a Jaguar XF, a new XJ and a BMW 3 series, all of which have been plagued with problems. I accept French cars have had major issues in the past, but going on my own experience, that no longer seems to be the case.
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My DS5 is delivered on Friday. I've gone for the 160 diesel and despite doing high mainly mway mileage will be happy with mid/high 40's mpg.
I test drove before buying and thought the ride was good, I drive a Kuga at the moment which has very good ride so if the ds was that bad would have noticed. Some reviewers have suggested the very good seats in the ds disguise the ride. Seats or not it felt pretty good.
Anyway the real reason for buying is that the interior is gorgeous, the outside is refreshingly different and interesting.
I know depreciation will be bad but if I went the BMW Audi route I'd be paying over £30k for similar spec and overall level of blandness which seems to get worse with each new generation of model. I want cars to interest me.
Will let you know how things go.
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MPG sounds quite Ok for such a car.
Citroen missed a trick by not fitting the Hydropneaumatic suspension though, they do fit it to high Spec C5s, whereas lower spec variants are coil sprung so it should be on their agenda.
If you live in Sheffield, you really would need it as the roads here are total b0ll0x
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Hmm, not off to a great start.
The dealer has managed not to get the car ready for today and it's missed the transport so I'm having to wait until the next week.
Should I have bought locally - probably not, I can wait a few days for the benefits looking around has bought.
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DS delivered today and looking resplendent in white despite the oil from leaky hydraulics on the transporter.
Only 60 miles done so far but on familiar roads and the ride is fine, firm and flat and I guess if you like and are used to a soft and bouncy traditional french car ride you might not like it.
Let's not give Citroen too hard a time though, their big cars weren't selling so why not try something different.
It is beautiful though, the leather is soft, metals feel good and the lighting is lovely and it all feels well screwed together - however I do feel that in 100k miles time (thats how long I plan to keep it) it's not going to feel as good as my Kuga did.
More to follow.
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