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Modern Automatics - RichT54

I am planning on buying a new car sometime next year, probably a 2L diesel hatch, estate of one of these crossover things. I've been wondering whether to go for an automatic this time to save wear and tear on my aging knee joint!

Back when I started driving in the seventies I had a couple of automatics of the 3-gear torque convertor type which proved thirsty compared to the manual versions. Nowadays there seem to be mostly DSG style or CVT types. I've heard that these can give as good or better mpg than manuals, but have also heard that the DSG type may not be as reliable and are costly to fix. Experience of a friend's ancient Simca CVT a long time ago, with its engine screaming and going slower and slower up a hill, has made me very wary of that format.

So what are modern autos like? Can you still get the torque converter type and are they more fuel efficient these days?

How about DSG style autos - are some manufacturers' boxes better and more reliable than others?

Do modern CVTs handle hills better than the old versions used to?

Modern Automatics - Shabba0070

Hi my dad has a Pug 3008 2.0HDI 163bhp auto and he loves it.

He has previously had 3 VAG DSG cars and also a BMW 3series auto and this box is equal to all of them. i'm also lead to understand this auto box that is in the 3008 163bhp is a Porche box

I also have a DSG auto seat leon and i would be extreamly loathed to return to a manual now

Just rememeber that most Golf GTi's sold these days are indeed DSG equiped

Cheers

Chris

Modern Automatics - RT

Modern versions of the old-school torque converter + planetary gears automatics have a much, much smaller fuel penalty than they used to - thanks to more gears and converter lock-up clutches They're just as reliable as they used to be whereas the jury's still out on DSGs and CVTs - if you were really unlucky and needed a gearbox rebuilding at least it can be done for the old style autoboxes - try finding a rebuilder for DSG or CVT !

Personally, I wouldn't consider DSG or CVT, certainly not if out of manufacturer's warranty.

Edited by RT on 31/10/2012 at 19:42

Modern Automatics - Steamdrivenandy

I can't speak for CVTs or DSGs because I've always tried to find a good old real automatic torque converter box and so far every car I've had since '89 has had one.

My first was a Vauxhall Carlton 3 speeder which was OK but a while later I got a Carlton with a 4 speed which was much better. Then a Pug 405 Estate, a couple of Mondeo estates, a RAV4, a Volvo 850 estate, an Octavia estate, a Yaris Verso, a Sorento and now a 59 plate Cee'd SW CRDTi.

There is still a fuel consumption penalty which according to the official figures in the Kia brochure is about 10 to 12mpg, but is probably a bit less in real life, depending on how you drive.

I have read somewhere that Kia are/will be offering the new Cee'd Sportwagon with the option of either a new DSG box or the torque converter.

Modern Automatics - unthrottled

Nowadays there seem to be mostly DSG style or CVT types. I've heard that these can give as good or better mpg than manuals

Yes, because manuals have to use prescribed gears foe the urban part of the NEDC, whereas automated gearboxes can select the gear that gets the best economy. In the real world I don't have to use 3rd gear when driving through town.

That said, if you're lazy with gear shifting, an auto will get better mileage.

Modern Automatics - jamie745

In fairness a manual usually will give better economy but only if you drive it in an economical fashion. If I sit at 40 in 2nd gear it's not going to be economical. Autos vary from smooth to somewhat dimwitted, especially in slow town traffic where an auto can keep jumping from 1st to 2nd when it's not really required.

A CVT is essentially one speed isn't it? That no doubt helps with economy in some way. That's about as technical as I can get on the matter.

Modern Automatics - gordonbennet

Autos are not an economy decision, they are or should be, about driving ease and pleasure, the only auto that should be considered is one that fulfils your needs and the faults of which can be lived with.

For example i would not buy a vehicle with an automated manual (automated clutch in normal box), simply because i find the manoeuvering and low speed hesitancy and jerky operation intolerable just as i want the vehicle in the correct gear at junctions/roundabouts at all times and virtually all vehicles with this design are hopeless...except for Volvo lorries (Renault lorries also use Volvos drive train).

Dual clutch boxes seem to be far better on the road due to being able to fast shift when needed, but the low speed problems are still there, jury still out on long term reliabilty in general use.

Remember i delivered thousands of the things when i drove car transporters and intense close manoenuvering on steep inclines was a large part of the job, my vehicle perceptions are probably clouded by this.

Would happily have a CVT for driving pleasure so long as the maker was known for good customer back up after normal warranty expired, (some big names feature in the list of not with a long barge pole), and their cars durable, therefore Toyota or Honda preferred.

I've had traditional autos for years, the overall driving experience is superb being infinitely controllable at slow speed and smooooth on the road, at their best in 6+ cylinder petrol engines or oddly enough in torquey turbo Diesels with 4 or 6 pots, but they are without doubt heavier on fuel due to transmission losses though but reliable and long lived if maintained.

Doubt many autos will work out more fuel efficient than manual for good drivers, but any savings will be wiped out and then some should the more complicated auto box ever go wrong.

Modern Automatics - colinh

My last three cars have been automatics - firstly a Golf 2.0 Tdi DSG averaged 50.4 mpg over 3+years. This was followed by a Kia cee'd with 2.0 petrol torque convertor which returned 37.7 mpg over 3+ years. The last year has been in an Auris 1.8 hybrid with CVT-type box and that is averaging 55.1 mpg to date. All had the same type of motoring - local rural plus long motorway runs on cruise control in Spain. None have had problems with hils or low speeds.

Modern Automatics - coopshere
Six months ago I bought a nearly new automatic (it's a Toyota Avensis Estate with CVT) and before doing so did a lot of research on the various types of automatic/automated gearboxes available from all the major manufacturers. I have had at least one auto in the household since the mid 80's.

There are essentially four types which are 1, the conventional torque converter auto. 2, the CVT. 3, Dual Clutch such as VAG's DSG and 4, the automated clutch.

The latest Torque Convertor Auto seems reliable enough but not many of the major manufacturers use them now. Honda and Toyota only use them in some vehicles.

As far as I am aware no one now makes a CVT box connected to a diesel.

Reports for high mileage DSG boxes are not favourable, the Powershift system used by Ford and Volvo get a better longevity report.

The cheapest of these to repair or replace is the conventional auto the DSG and CVT will cost around £5,000 to replace.

The driving experience with all but the auto clutch box is virtually identical, each has its own little idiosyncrasies which you would get used to over time. I could not get used to the Peugeot/Citroen auto clutch system it was awful and made the cars unstable due to the places where it wanted to change gear in.

I would strongly recommend that when you have chosen a short list of cars you would like you arrange to have extended test drives in them before deciding. I love automatics and for my own cars wouldn't choose anything else now but they are not all equal.

Modern Automatics - madf

I have just bought a 2012 Jazz with CVT married to a conventional torque convertor.

VERY smooth, no changes noted unless hard acceleration. 7 preset speeds for CVT with top being 70mph at c 2,200 rpm.

More economical than manual - just.

But only a 1.4 engine..

I would not buy a CVT from VAG and Ford are theiving bar stewards whose last CVT blew up as it was incapable of handling the engine torque and Ford knew it : but no goodwill repairs there.

As GB said, if it aint Toyota or Honda CVT, run away.. (or Lexus of course)..

I used to drive old style autos (MB,Jag) and loved them but fuel economy :-(

Edited by madf on 01/11/2012 at 14:01