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Chris, you ask a question like this in here and its inevitable that you will get the 3 same old answers, split evenly.
Yes!, you have some comeback because........
No!, you dont have any comeback because........
Maybe!, you might have some comeback because........
True, it will provide some interesting debate along the way but you will be non the wiser at the end of it. Much as I appreciate your situation and realise that you are looking for some support over the matter all you will get is opinion....... If you want the definative answer you need to speak directly to a qualified legal adviser, tell them whole story start to finish and dont tell any lies.
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Chris, you ask a question like this in here and its inevitable that you will get the 3 same old answers, split evenly.
Yes!, you have some comeback because........
No!, you dont have any comeback because........
Maybe!, you might have some comeback because........
True, it will provide some interesting debate along the way but you will be non the wiser at the end of it. Much as I appreciate your situation and realise that you are looking for some support over the matter all you will get is opinion....... If you want the definative answer you need to speak directly to a qualified legal adviser, tell them whole story start to finish and dont tell any lies.
Only two points I wanted to raise.
Are these small Fiats prone to sudden and unexpected breakdowns of this kind ? Or could the fault have been hidden or bodged up with bars leaks or similar, hence the car appears OK for the intial inspection ?
When a car is bought like this from a small ad, is there really any comeback, is it really worth going back to the trader or seller ? or do we just advertise it on EBAY as scrap and forget about it.
Its not like its a nearly new AUDI that cost £ 32 K, as in one of the cases cited before.
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The Sale of Goods Act is Absolute in this case due to timescale.
Full refund due by trader. Period. No debate... No getouts due to age, price or anything. the fault is dememd by law to be present when selling the car.
No debate: it is the LAW>
Ask for your money back and quote the above. Any problems? Local Trading Standards.
Edited by madf on 26/09/2012 at 20:46
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The Sale of Goods Act is Absolute in this case due to timescale.
Full refund due by trader. Period. No debate... No getouts due to age, price or anything. the fault is dememd by law to be present when selling the car.
No debate: it is the LAW>
Ask for your money back and quote the above. Any problems? Local Trading Standards.
Precisely.
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Hi ,
it's a complex area when your dealing with a car as old as this , I would guess that you paid less than a £1000 for the car , I would go back to the dealer and see if he's prepared to help .
The dealer is probably liable even though the car is old and cost very little .
However if he says the car was sold as seen ,you would have to do a lot of work and spend more money to be able to present a case to the small claims court .
Initially you would have to provide an engineers report ,that would confirm the actual fault ,perhaps £150 .Then you would need to pay the court fees of £200 .both of which you would recover if the judge agrees with you .Plus you will need to take a day off work to attend court .
Finally if the dealer has no money to pay the amount you are awarded ,or he disappears and starts another business you have lost another £350 .
I think overall you are better to put this down to experience ,I would put the car on e bay without reserve ,a car always sells for more money without a reserve .You must describe the car accurately .It will sell in the region of £200 to £400 .
Regards
Tony g
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It doesn't matter how much you paid for the car, a car was bought in good faith which was advertised as being in good condition, that's the beginning and end of it. The cost of the car would be taken into consideration in marginal cases (i.e. it only lasted 6 months/5K miles), this car failed to cover 15 miles - it was not fit for purpose. The buyer is entitled to a full refund unless the dealer can prove the buyer caused the fault since the car was purchased.
Edited by SteveLee on 26/09/2012 at 20:53
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(It doesn't matter how much you paid for the car, The buyer is entitled to a full refund unless the dealer can prove the buyer caused the fault since the car was purchased.)
Sorry Steve this is naive response ,what the op is entitled to and what she can recover are two different things .
She could spend hundreds of pounds chasing money she's never going to recover .
Her only recourse is to go back to the dealer and ask him if he will sort it out ,if he doesn't ,she's probably better to cut her losses .Thats the point ,the losses would be in the region of £500 .
Treading standards are a toothless organisation ,thier only option is the SCC .
Edited by tony g on 26/09/2012 at 22:03
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A similar experience with my slightly newer, slightly smaller engined Fiat is recounted in the string 'FIAT Panda, repair or replace' which I posted the other day. I can't really help much except to say yes these FIRE engines do blow their gaskets. There was a period of some months when the only indication of a problem was the heater not working, and then I could have sold the car. But unlike your sellers, I chose not to.
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There was a period of some months when the only indication of a problem was the heater not working,
The heater was not working because the coolant was not circulating properly. That caused the cylinder head to overheat and crush the head gasket. Any engine subject to continual poor circulation of coolant will eventually suffer heads gasket failure.
If the heater stops working, stop. The chances are that a flush followed by a proper bleeding procedure will save the engine.
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Surely a 2001 Punto must only be worth a few hundred quid running best buy another and keep this one as a spares bank.
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Taken from TS website
"When you buy goods from a trader, you enter into a legally binding contract governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979, as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
If you buy a used car from a trader it must be of satisfactory quality, fit for the purpose, and as described. Obviously a very old car with a high mileage will not be as good as a newer car with a low mileage, but it should still be fit for use on the road, in a condition which reflects its age and price, and reliable.
Traders cannot take away consumer's rights by using terms such as ‘sold as seen’.
I agree about the possibility of getting a court judgement and then not being able to enforce it
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Trader is not interested at all, he thinks it was OK when he sold it and will not accept any liability for the breakdown
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Trader is not interested at all, he thinks it was OK when he sold it and will not accept any liability for the breakdown
He can think as much as he likes a car that only lasts 15 miles in not fit for purpose - legally he hasn't got a leg to stand on - a open and shut small claims court case win - plus costs for the dealer.
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(open and shut small claims court case win - plus costs for the dealer.)
The dealers selling bangers for less than a grand ,he's already said he won't help .He,s a no money waste of space .
It will cost at least three hundred pounds to get him to court ,it's simply not worth risking another £300 to try and recover the £600 that the op is out of pocket.
It makes financial sense to either sell the car on e bay or try to get the head gasket fixed ,about £300 ?
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www.howtotakesomeonetocourt.info/joomla/small-clai...l
Maximum £140 to start proceedings. I think OP might well win and get a judgement but the seller probably has minimal assets and a judgement might be impossible to enforce.
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Well a bit of everything that has been suggested.
Bought another Punto, newer but same model, which is going through a full service and MOT at the seller's expense before we collect it.
Will swap over any better parts to the second one.
May try and get a secondhand engine fitted in the original one and sell it on, depends on what price it can be done for, otherwise keep it as a spares mule, got plenty of space for it. .
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This puzzles me, you bought a known bad car with established reliability problems, got bitten badly and then went out and bought another one?
Personally your experience would have been enough to ensure I didn't go near another Fiat with that engine.
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(This puzzles me, you bought a known bad car with established reliability problems, got bitten badly and then went out and bought another one?
Personally your experience would have been enough to ensure I didn't go near another Fiat with that engine.)
Any car that's costing less than a grand is going to be a gamble ,there's a case to be made for buying a car that you know what the faults could be and checking for them before buying .
A good example of cars that the public consider to be reliable is the old vw polo .
The engines are generally ok ,4 cylinder ,not 3 .But the gearboxes are weak ,I've come across quite a few with serious gear box failure ,1.4 and 1.6 golfs are the same .
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Fair comment, I've been lucky with cars at this end of the scale.
I tend to go for the ones with a good reliability record but a not-so-great image (for second car -- my main car is a much newer Mondeo at the moment).
Case in point, current 'banger' is a Mitsubishi Space Star 1.6, bought at 7 years old with 100,000 miles on the clock for £1000 from a work colleague (this is key, he was using it every day to and from work for eight months so I knew the car before buying it).
OK, there's a couple of spots of rust here and there now that's 10 years old but it hasn't given a moment's trouble in all that time and I don't expect it to either.
No way is it 'cool', but it's reliable and well put together and not that bad to drive either.
As for the Polo, I've never been convinced of its reliability. I've known a few people who have had late 90s/early 2000s Polos and they seem to suffer from a steady stream of rust, electrics and gearbox problems, and I really don't see the justification for the premium you have to pay for one. Older Fiesta seems a much more sensible option generally, although as you say they all have their problems (I'm sure even the Mitsu does if I dig around enough, although the most anyone ever seems to say about these is that they rattle and squeak -- at 10 years old I expect that!!).
Edited by primeradriver on 01/10/2012 at 14:44
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(open and shut small claims court case win - plus costs for the dealer.) The dealers selling bangers for less than a grand ,he's already said he won't help .He,s a no money waste of space . It will cost at least three hundred pounds to get him to court ,it's simply not worth risking another £300 to try and recover the £600 that the op is out of pocket. It makes financial sense to either sell the car on e bay or try to get the head gasket fixed ,about £300 ?
As I have a decent amount of money in the bank, I'd be inclined to spend the extra £300 if only to put a black mark on the dealer's credit file in all honesty (as he's bound to ignore any county court ruling against him, that's the way low-end car dealers tend to be).
I'm vindictive like that.
Edited by primeradriver on 01/10/2012 at 12:35
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But it will not make the slightest difference even if the case is proven they will just carry on trading using another name and try and recover money from somebody who says they have nothing, baseball bats are the tools if you want to feel vindictive.
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I'll bear that in mind >:)
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You can do a lot to make life difficult for low life traders if you have the inclination.
Print a leaflet with the details of hwo they robbed you and stand outside giving a copy to punters..
Tends to upset them a lot so have an exit handy.. Watch out for baseball bats.. Of course, you can have an anonymous friend to video any confrontation and use it as evidence to the police...
Report them to the HSE for an unsafe site (any excuse)
Report them to Trading Standrads.
All sorts of ways to hassle them
Report them to The Reveune for fraud and VAT evasion.
Report them to the Planning Authority for mess and dirt...
All can be done anonymously... without being found out.
Let the illegitimate offspring squirm......
I am not vindictive.. No never...
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Well you see enough Puntos around, they can't all be bad or knackered. And this one is a few years newer with proper FSH and is going through a Service and MOT before We pick it up.
The Lady in Question whi wants the car has had several Puntos over the years and she loves them, not had the slightest bother with any before. I see that some reccomend old VW polos, and to be honest, in the past I had an E reg one for many years that was absolutely unburstable. Looked at a few of those on a V reg onwards on sale today for few hundred pounds and most were in pretty poor order.
There are dangers in buying any used car, and lessons have been learned.
I have the trader in my sights, he only lives on the next street from me, Revenge is a dish best served cold, so we'll get him one day.
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It is a logical fallacy to assume that just because a common car is, well, common, that it's reliable.
There are many cars around that are better than the Punto. The only advantage this model has second-hand that I can see is that it's cheap to buy.
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