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I have the answer to the Uk defesite and the melting o9f the polar ice cap!
Turn off traffic lights at non peak times, especially at night.
I have no idea how much it costs to run a traffic light, let use use a figure of £1 a day.
Around a traffic island were I live there are 20 lights, that is running cost of £7300 per year,. Another roundabout has 16, the next one also has 16, a few yards up the road there are 12 on the next roundabout, stopping traffic at 3 am when there is non. In addition there are lights that are guarding entrances to closed office complex, supermarkets and industrial estate. Then there are the many pelican lights when there are no pedestrians.
And we have not even started on the cost to stranded vehicles at traffic lights that have stopped a vehicle while nothing else is on the road.
Here is a government petition if anyone is interested, sadly due to close soon, but sign it anyway
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19020
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But watch out for polar bears attacking the pelicans ...
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The cost of runnng lights is trivial; the cost lies in unnecessary braking.
Switching lights off is only practical on roundabouts because normal rules of priority apply. In other situations, drivers look to traffic lights for instruction as to proceed. The answer lies in switching lights to default to green in the primary direction of travel and using traffic sensors to only switch the lights when a vehicle approaches from the other direction. This, in conjunction with countdown displays, would save more fuel and noise than any mechanical/electrcal gizmo applied to vehicles. It would also be far less costly.
But modified traffic lights are far less sexy than championing the latest hybrid car, so gues which option gains the most attention?
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>> The cost of runnng lights is trivial; the cost lies in unnecessary braking.
So kill two birds with one stone and do what they do here in NL. Lights are coupled to sensor loops under the road. When there's nothing around, they stay green in one direction and change when something approaches the other way. If you don't speed excessively, they change before you get there and you don't have to brake. If you go tanking up to a green set way over the speed limit, they change and make you wait while they cycle.
You very rapidly learn that sticking to somewhere around the speed limit saves you both fuel and time and provides a far more pleasant journey.
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"So kill two birds with one stone and do what they do here in NL. Lights are coupled to sensor loops under the road. When there's nothing around,"
That's so pre-2000. We have the same system, and it was flipped to do the complete opposite some time during Blunkett's transport reign when congestion charging was planned for all cities and they wanted to increase fuel use and so fuel duties collected.
The rules were subsequently relaxed in 2009, but most councils left things as they were as there are no 'pot's of money' to apply for, to change anything.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998182.stm
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Well yes, but the Pelicans have seen off the Zebra so maybe they can deal the Polar bear too.
Possibly we should launch a campaugn to get the zebra protected.
Also remember if you cross either please do not feed them.
Edited by skittles on 13/09/2012 at 02:10
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Do polar bears even wear ice caps?
Agree with unthrottled, people have largely forgotten how to act at intersections where there are no traffic signals.
Just look at how many people stop at a mini roundabout not sure who has right of way!
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I seem to remember the Highway Code mentions Toucan and Puffin crossings, too. And Pegasus crossings for horse riders IIRC. (Hyde Park Corner?)
The simple solution to roundabouts is to set all the lights to "proceed with caution" flashing amber at off-peak times and let the traffic flow naturally as it was meant to when roundabouts were first invented all those years ago.
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Most roundabouts do have part-time signals. The problem arises with junctions where you cannot see the approach of other vehicles in advance, so you have to stop at the junction to look-unless there is a green light telling you that progress is safe.
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If you're not keen on traffic lights you can go and live in Skelmersdale. There aren't any - the whole system is planned that way (lots of roundabouts though).
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look-unless there is a green light telling you that progress is safe.
If you believe a green light tells you progress is safe you're being kidded. The green bulb is OK. The corresponding red won't stop the drunk loon, the person who's watching the wrong light or an emergency vehicle.
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>> look-unless there is a green light telling you that progress is safe.
When are some people going to get around to reading the highway code?
Green does not mean it's safe to go, it means proceed if the way is clear!
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Green does not mean it's safe to go, it means proceed if the way is clear!
Pedantry. How often do you stop and visually check that all approaches are clear before proceding through a green light??
As for drunken loons, no system of designated priority is of any use against them. Driving is inherently dangerous. You have to go with the balance of probabilities. That, and making sure that any collision is someone else's liability!
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Pedantry. How often do you stop and visually check that all approaches are clear before proceding through a green light
Always.
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Always.
Me too, being a motorcyclist, I've had too many near-misses with idiots jumping lights, so a quick look each way is now instinctive. In London today, traffic light jumping is almost normal - people drivng through straight reds, something I rarely witnessed when I first started driving in the early 80s - presumably when most of London's population learned how to drive here.
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Pedantry. How often do you stop and visually check that all approaches are clear before proceding through a green light
Always.
For avoidance of doubt/pedantry I mean check when moving off fromm head of queue. Otherwise a glance around while entereing the junction is enough. Nothing in Lodon stops for amber and I regularly see buses go through a clear red.
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I have no idea how much it costs to run a traffic light, let use use a figure of £1 a day.
Around a traffic island were I live there are 20 lights, that is running cost of £7300 per year
What a load of baloney
An old fashioned traffic light with filament bulbs uses 60W, so approx 1.5kW hr per day. Modern LED traffic lights use 16W or around 0.39kWhr per day.
At a cost of 10p/kwhr the daily cost for a modern traffic light is 3.9p.
20 lights would have an annual cost of around £15
Edited by brum on 14/09/2012 at 00:52
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I have just returned from the US east coast where roundabouts have yet to be invented. They have zillions of lighted crossroads. Made me realise how advanced we are in traffic movement technology - we have to be as so much traffic in so little space.
In contrast to our intelligent lights, theirs are stupid in that they don't sense variability of traffic, e.g.change almost immediately at night when when nothing's around.
There is one good thing we could copy, though - cautiously filter right [left for us] on red.
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Quote
"What a load of baloney
An old fashioned traffic light with filament bulbs uses 60W, so approx 1.5kW hr per day. Modern LED traffic lights use 16W or around 0.39kWhr per day.
At a cost of 10p/kwhr the daily cost for a modern traffic light is 3.9p.
20 lights would have an annual cost of around £15"
that is interesting, so now I know, surprised the running cost is so low.
However what is the cost to the motorist in fuel and inconvenience being held at lights that are red but nothing coming the other way.
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However what is the cost to the motorist in fuel and inconvenience being held at lights that are red but nothing coming the other way.
How long is a piece of string? You are asking an open ended question which depends on:
the length of time the lights are on red
the driving style of the driver - do they dawdle slowly up to a red light and accelerate slowly, or brake at last minute and accelerate hard away.
fuel efficiency at iidle : diesel is best.
Stop/start fitted and operational.
Car warm or cold
So anything form zero (hybrid) to maybe 1/4 gallon for a 5 litre V8 monster driven by an idiot when cold sho revs it up in impatience... and is held up for 5 minutes....and when free puts foot firmly down .
Edited by madf on 14/09/2012 at 14:11
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Big spaces!
There is always a cost, even with hybrid and it is an unessesseery one whetyher it is a litre or 5 litres.
II used to come home from work at 2.30 am and in the space of 2.2 miles I would often be stopped at 7 sets of lights, one of which was to a B&Q closed at that time of night, another was an office comples, also closed.
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Traffic lights might be a mild annoyance when your'e on the main road - the one that would have priority if the lights weren't there - but think of all the junctions where you'd have to give way or stop if your're on the more minor road if there were no lights - think of the number of stressful right turns onto busy roads that are saved by having traffic lights.
Traffic lights are one of the best inventions and I'd be happy to see more of them.
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In some european countries, traffic lights flash amber during off peak times, indicating it is up to the driver to be aware of the junction and give way if necessary.
Adopting this method might answer the OP's criticsm of UK traffic lights.
It would also reduce electricity consumption (say about 25%)
There are also european countries where the rules that allow you to filter right (those that drive on the right) against a red light unless specifically indicated.
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Another aspect of driving in the USA - related to the lack of roundabouts - is the plethora of "4-way Stops", i.e. junctions where every car stops on the line and cars move off in the order of arrival. Makes an automatic essential - especially in a city like San Francisco, where I think a clutch would barely last a week! - but is very wasteful of fuel with constant stopping and starting. Roundabouts are much better suited to countries which make cars that corner properly (ahem) and where drivers' instincts and reaction times on much more crowded roads are generally better.
In countries that finally adopt roundabouts, the authorities never seem to bother with Public Information Films or the like to show people how to use them, which lane to use, how to indicate, etc., so near-misses (near-death-experiences in parts of Spain I could mention!) are commonplace.
And as we conspiracy theorists already know, there is constant manipulation of traffic light sequences to deliberately snarl up traffic prior to completing a major roadbuilding project (Madrid's M30 and M40) or congestion charge (London) so that the post-roadworks traffic is noticeably better and drivers are happier and, surprise surprise, certain politicians magically get re-elected.
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Germany is a pefect example built a roundabout near me and most drivers haven't clue how to use it can be a bit hairaising at times.
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Germany is a pefect example built a roundabout near me and most drivers haven't clue how to use it can be a bit hairaising at times.
I worked in Cologne, admittedly in the late 70's, but they had or may still have, a traffic light system that worked very well. If you stopped at a red light, when you set off again a suggested speed was displayed in lights. It may be 20kph or 30kph or anything else, but if you kept to that speed the next traffic light would be green. This system would work day or night, in busy or quiet periods. It can't be difficult to manage that here, surely. Concrete
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There is a reasonble new stretch of dual carrriageway into Dresden with maybe six sets of lights with a speed guidance display as described above it is suprising the number of vehicles that speed off only to wait at the next red light.
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That's a good idea; it'd work very nicely in/out of Liverpool, as if you hit one set of lights on red you're unfortunately bound to hit them all.....
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That's a good idea; it'd work very nicely in/out of Liverpool, as if you hit one set of lights on red you're unfortunately bound to hit them all.....
Hello Bobbin, I worked in Liverpool when we developed Paradise Street a few years ago. Edge Lane was a nightmare as you describe. If I was a traffic light salesman I would head for Liverpool!!! Cheers Concrete
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Edge Lane was a nightmare as you describe.
Exactly where I was thinking!
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"I worked in Cologne, admittedly in the late 70's, but they had or may still have, a traffic light system that worked very well. If you stopped at a red light, when you set off again a suggested speed was displayed in lights. It may be 20kph or 30kph or anything else, but if you kept to that speed the next traffic light would be green. This system would work day or night, in busy or quiet periods. It can't be difficult to manage that here, surely. "
They had just such a system in Slough at about the same time, start off from a green and stick to 30 mph and subsequent lights would turn green as you approached them. It seems it was abandoned at some time but is about to be reinstated.
www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/201...e
I used to have to use the Marylebone Road in London and it would be a real improvement on the current drag races.
Edited by OG on 27/09/2012 at 04:24
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Alternatively why do so many drivers leave their brake lights on whilst they are waiting at traffic lights ? Turn all of those brake lights off and we would save over 100 megawatts per day in the UK along, which translates to saving a heck of a lot of fuel and costs.
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Because applying the handbrake is, like, totally last year. I mean what a drag.
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Alternatively why do so many drivers leave their brake lights on whilst they are waiting at traffic lights ? Turn all of those brake lights off and we would save over 100 megawatts per day in the UK along, which translates to saving a heck of a lot of fuel and costs.
Savings aside, this insistence on balancing on the footbrake drives me mad. Put your damned handbrake on!!!!
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