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Thanks for the answers.
I only recently bought the XTRail dci (2004) and it starts and runs really well. The only issue is that on harsh acceleration I get black smoke gushing out the exhaust. My local garage said as it only had one owner it could be it was used to potter around so a good diesel cleaner and two weeks of occasionaly blasts on the dual carriageway shoudl do the job
It seems opinion is divided, some are saying diesel is fine on its own and some are saying I need a cleaner..
Thanks
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Thanks for the answers.
I only recently bought the XTRail dci (2004) and it starts and runs really well. The only issue is that on harsh acceleration I get black smoke gushing out the exhaust. My local garage said as it only had one owner it could be it was used to potter around so a good diesel cleaner and two weeks of occasionaly blasts on the dual carriageway shoudl do the job
It seems opinion is divided, some are saying diesel is fine on its own and some are saying I need a cleaner..
Thanks
4,000rpm when warm for 30 secs once a wekk will work wonders.
Low revs and mimsing = cover everything in carbon.
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Dumb question but I presume you mean 3rd gear ?
Are you saying dont add any cleaner
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Here's my two penneth – Diesel engines were originally designed to work at high temperatures. The higher the combustion temperature, the more complete would be the combustion and the less soot would be emitted. I remember many years ago there was talk of developing ceramic engines for military use. Without the expansion and contraction of metal, ceramic engines could run at high temperatures and burn anything available – heating oil, lard, whatever. But now there are faceless powers who tell us that high combustion temperatures produce nitrous oxides and that is bad. So we have to have EGR (exhaust gas re-circulation) valves which allow exhaust gasses back into the combustion cycle, therefore causing a 'richer' mixture and reducing the combustion temperature. This stops the production of nitrous oxides but gives an incomplete combustion which allows soot (diesel particulates) to be emitted and which cokes up the EGR valve and stops it working and now we have to fit a DPF (diesel particulate filter) to stop the soot getting into the environment. I've just had a look on United Diesel's website (uniteddiesels.co.uk). They were selling a diesel additive similar to Millers Oils 'Diesel Eco-max' and Wynns 'Diesel Power 3', where you add a shot to the tank at each fill-up. I have to agree with United diesel's comment that fitting a DPF is like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. If we could get complete combustion, there would be nothing to filter out. Reading up on these additives, it seems that they all contain cerium, which lowers the temperature at which soot burns, leading to a more complete combustion and reducing the smoke coming out of the exhaust. I also read that cerium may be an ingredient of the expensive fluids which must be be used in conjunction with a DPF. And there's a down-side to this! A recent article on BBC News says that a study has found that cerium causes fertility problems! It's a loose, loose situation! Another comment on the United Diesel website is that you have two choices – you can use a premium fuel such as Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate with additives which will give a more complete combustion, more lubricity, protection from wear and help dissipate moisture and help to prevent water in the fuel from freezing in Winter, or you can use cheapest supermarket fuel (it all comes from the same stock output from the refineries) and put a shot of your own choice of additive in a each fill-up. And the latter is what I do!
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Forget what you read/hear on the BBC news, their reporting isn't worth salt these days. There are millions of things that can affect fertility, drinking alcohol, smoking for example, and yet millions ignore the research findings.
Read this for more info on Cerium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerium
Back to the subject matter...when I used Shell Fuelsave + Millers Diesel Eco-Max in a Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi + DPF the engine oil stayed relatively unblack like for a few thousand miles, then I had the engine oil & filter changed and started using only Shell V-Power, the engine oil went black within 1 thousand miles. mpg was about the same for like for like driving obtaining around 74mpg over a mixture of roads over 100 miles run, done many many times.
What would I do in your situation - well if Shell V-Power were available I would run your car on that fuel. If it's not available or you prefer to use another brand then I'd add a proven additive/cleaner such as Millers Diesel Eco-Max or one of those recommended above.
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Just to really put a spanner in the works 2 stroke oil added to Diesel.
I have to admit works realy well, excellent results and long term much greater fuel economey and so much smoother and quieter !
Worth a read below
taken from another motoring forum :
"To all interested:
due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel.
Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump.
The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200.
In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.
Edited by injection doc on 04/09/2012 at 21:20
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Re-adding two-stroke oil to diesel. I've tried it in my 6 year old Mitsubishi L200 pickup with a 4D56T 115 hp IDI turbo diesel over an extended period at the 1-200 dilution suggested. This motor is relatively old-technology with an electronically controlled distributor injection pump. I noticed that the engine runs quieter, and there is a very slight improvement in mpg, but not really enough to justify the cost of the 2T oil. I have yet to try it in anything more modern.
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Good post...Injection doc..
Edited by Roly93 on 04/09/2012 at 23:11
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ID, have you added 2 -stroke oil into the fuel tank of your Ford Fiesta 1.6 TDCi and if so what were the results ?
Similar has anyone here added 2-stroke oil into their fuel tank for an engine with a common rail fuel system ?
Results please ?
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Hi Mike
Yes for the last year, quieter, smoother, more low down grunt and improved MPG.
after approx 3 months on TSO the MPg was touching 70mpg on a run.
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Which brand of 2-stroke oil did you use ?
Do you add the oil into the fuel tank before or after adding diesel fuel ?
Does/could the 2-stroke oil cause any issues with cDPF and DPF types ?
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Does/could the 2-stroke oil cause any issues with cDPF and DPF types ?
I'd be very surprised if it didn't, bearing in mind that DPF cars are fussy about the ash content of engine oil and the amount of engine oil burned is quite small...
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If you read the article TSO reduces diesel soot.
Also if you use low ash TS0 even better for diesels with DPF I add the TSO when after i have filled the tank.
If you drive an old diesel car that smokes, three tank fulls of TSO reduces the smoke big time so just goes to show how effective it is.
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It looks compelling, but it's factually inaccurate.
Most 2 smoke oils contain a lot of sulphur-which is going to interfere with the catalytic function of the DPF.
On a non-DPF equipped vehicle it probably won't do any harm.
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This is a fascinating thread. I wonder what the effects of using two stroke oil will have on a diesel EGR valve? I remember my two stroke motorcycling days when it was routine maintenance to regularly decoke the engine and exhaust system. I appreciate the concentration of 2 stroke oil in fuel was much higher in the old days when it was premixed at 20:1. However, we've all heard stories of clogged up EGR valves and I wonder whether the addition of 2 stroke oil to diesel will compound the problem. What do you think?
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On another forum there is a guy who 's diesel engine covered 170K on a 2so mix and then stripped it to see how clean it all was. I have to say that if the photo's were true thenm it was extremely clean including the EGR due to a cleaner burn engine.
below is an extract from another forum debating the same issue.
In two-stroke oil we get 4 different quality ratings, which are based on the JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Org.) scale:
JASO-FA very basic single grade SAE30 or SAE40 based 2-stroke oil (premix only)
JASO-FB Used for most premix industrial 2-stroke engines and scooters
JASO-FC "Low ash burn" used for separate oil injection and most outboard motors. this oil can be mineral or part synthetic
JASO-FD This is fully synthetic 2-stroke oil for racing engines. It is not suitable for mixing with diesel, because a) too expensive and b) not compatible with cats and particle filters.
For All Series LR and Disco1 and 2 a Jaso-FB rated oil is fine. For Disco 3 and 4 a JASO-FC rated oil has to be used, such as the Fuchs oil.
Now in order to provide better lubrication but at the same time also better power delivery from the engines, the ideal solution seems to be to add 2-stroke oil (see above) in a mixing ratio of 1:200 i.e. 500ml per 100lt diesel.
This will increase the cetane rating by 3-5 points and will provide the following benefits:
1. Much better and more complete combustion (lower EGT)
2. Self cleaning of engine internals, as JASO-FC compliant 2-stroke oil burns cleaner and better than diesel. Due to this there is also about a 3-5% gain in fuel economy.
3. Sufficient lubrication of high pressure components in the diesel injection system.
4. Much quieter starting in the morning and smoother running
5. Reduced smoking
6. In engines with particle filter "burn free" action is reduced from every 600-700km to between every 1200-2000km
7. Much lower "clowd content" of diesel exhaust fumes typically from 0.95 down to 0.47. This is measured in Germany at the TüV.
8. Large government fleets in Germany report fleet reliability (MB Cdi, BMW CRD, Audi Tdi etc. etc. to exceed 400'000km WITHOUT VHP pump or injector failures <*** class="inlineimg" style="vertical-align: middle;" title="Smiley" src="http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/images/smilies/smiley.gif" border="0" alt="" />
So the above deliberations give some well documented indication, why adding 2-stroke oil to diesel is such a clever move.
I run my 1999 Disco1 300Tdi on Sasol 50ppm diesel with a 1:200 mixing ratio of Sasol Corwa-120 2-stroke oil added.
I get on long distance travel fully loaded between 8.9 to 10.8lt/100km depending on how heavy my right foot is. I have done a number of trips with 1000km per (standard capacity) tank.
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I've always found that blue cars never break down; I've never broken down in a blue car!.
If there really was a long list of benefits and no reason not to add 2 STO, then it would already be added at the refinery, wouldn't it?!
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Good question I was wondering the same thing.
Would it push up the cost of diesel fuel significantly I wonder, hence they use a cheaper additive solution ?
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ID, which 2-stroke oil do you use, does it conform to JASO FC or JASO FD standards ?
I notice Shell have at least 2 such 2-stroke oil products :
Shell Advance SX 2 - JASO-FB
Shell Advance SVX 2 - JASO FC and JASO FD.
Trying to get a handle on which oils are actually being used out there and what specs. appear to be helping in real world usage.
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In the light of receiving no answers to my questions above I've done some asking around within the motor trade. This included directly asking motor mechanics/engineers with many years of vehicle maintenance experience.
The feedback was :
(1) They have never heard of anyone putting 2-stroke oil into diesel fuel.
(2) If the car has a DPF then definately don't add 2-stroke oil to diesel fuel otherwise large repair/replacement bills could arise from a DPF failure or some other engine failure as a result of using 2-stroke oil.
Specifically I asked about using 2-stroke oil into diesel fuel for a Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi (with DPF) and a 1.8 TDCi (non-DPF). Don't add 2-stoke oil to the diesel fuel of either.
Has anyone got any further feedback or information they can contribute to this discussion ?
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The answer is simple do not add anything.
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" They have never heard of anyone putting 2-stroke oil into diesel fuel."
Hmm, little strange that as its well known for years.
In fact some of the manufactures that have been testing is in late common rail cars where there have been lubrication problems.
I have run it in our Fiesta 1600 TDCi for long time and it runs sweet as a nut.
If you read the extracts that i took from some of the forums you will see that for cars with DPf using low ash TSO reduces partical matter even further as the fuel burns even cleaner.
Each to his own.
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I run my 1999 Disco1 300Tdi on Sasol 50ppm diesel with a 1:200 mixing ratio of Sasol Corwa-120 2-stroke oil added.
I get on long distance travel fully loaded between 8.9 to 10.8lt/100km depending on how heavy my right foot is. I have done a number of trips with 1000km per (standard capacity) tank.
I regret to say but suggesting a 13 year old non common rail diesel and the use of two stroke oil has anything in common with modern coomon rail diesels with EGR valves and DPFs is like comparing apples with sea cucumbers..
They are totally different . Any example of any Land Rover produced or designed before 2002 is equally irrelevant.
Adding "two stroke oil" without very strict control of the quantity and the type of two stroke oil is in my view a recipe for disaster And frankly the claim of a 1:200 mix is risible as to achive that requires an exact knowledge of how much diesel is already contained in the tank before adding any two stroke oil. An error of 5 ltres in a typical 60 litre tank could change a 1:200 mix to a range between 1: 176 and 1:224.
All you need is a small 10% over or under addition of two stroke oil and you have a potential 1: 159 to 1: 246 mix. Most motorists are unlikely to being any more accurate.
A recipe for disasters and expensive ones.
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Modern diesel engines have to run on diesel fuel which differs widely in quality,density,sulphur content, wax content, and cetane number from country to country within europe. On the one hand there is the scandiavian winter fuel which akin to a heavy kerosene and on the other some of the balkans and romania have a very heavy viscous high sulphur diesel. I don't think that a drop or two of two stroke oil is going to do a diesel engine much harm. In an emergency you can run a diesel engine on kerosene (paraffin) if you add about 3% clean engine oil to the fuel.
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Modern diesel engines have to run on diesel fuel which differs widely in quality,density,sulphur content, wax content, and cetane number from country to country within europe
Hogwash. Name a European countrywhere EN590 standard fuel is unavailable.
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Modern diesel engines have to run on diesel fuel which differs widely in quality,density,sulphur content, wax content, and cetane number from country to country within europe
Hogwash. Name a European countrywhere EN590 standard fuel is unavailable.
Greece,Spain The Balkans, Romania, Bulgaria - it might say it's EN590 but it quite plainly ain't judging by the filthy exhaust smoke and smell if you use it.
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I've been to Greece and Spain and can't recall their cars being smokier than anywhere else. Of course the heat does exacerbate the pollution and the air quality in Athens is notoriously bad. Prpbably to do with the number of two strokes put-putting around the streets.
The notion that British fuel is somehow superior to everyone else's has been promulgated by companies like chips4chavs and their ilk without any evidence at all-yetpeople believe it.
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An error of 5 ltres in a typical 60 litre tank could change a 1:200 mix to a range between 1: 176 and 1:224.
So that's a 1:12 mix.
Now, are you saying that adding 2 stroke is harmful or adding 2 stroke at the wrong mix is the problem? Anyone familiar with mixing 2 stroke for petrol engines knows that a 10% variation is near enough.
Finally what harm would 2-stroke oil actually do to an engine designed to run on oil?
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Its funny how all my TDCI's Jags and Mondeo's that covered mega miles and apparently prone to pump and injector issue's have never suffered any issue's never even had an EGR valve , three Passats with up to 140K never had any turbo issues so for me it works.
My heap of Junk Freelander 2 that due to warranty and so many issues, I dont put anything near it to give Landrover any excuses whatsoever as they like there "act of god excuses " has already had an EGR valve fail at 17000 miles !
TSO is a lubricant so it has to help replace the lack of Sulpur that used to act as a lubricant.
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injection doc, you still haven't said which brand of TSO you are using, would you specify please ?
Also how many years have you been using TSO on your cars ?
Have you had a CAT tested at any time to see if it still works efficiently for the cars that have used TSO ?
Thanks.
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three Passats with up to 140K never had any turbo issues so for me it works
Some of those Passats must have been PD engines which have oil lubed unit injectors anyway.
The problem with 2SO is that the manufacturers are very cagey about what's in them.
Castor oil used to be a popular base stock-great film strength but it smokes terribly and forms varnishes at low combustion temperatures-not what you want.
Then there's the much missed ZDDP additive. Wonderful Extreme Pressure lubricant for valvetrains. You don't see much of it most engine oils because Phosphorous and Sulphur poison catalysts-even in the small quantities of oil that are burned in a normal 4 stroke engine. If you poison the cat in a DPF diesel, the DPF can't regenerate.
none of this is much of a problem for most two smoke engines whose exhaust consists of a hollow chamber and nothing else.
Straight mineral oil is nothing more than a homeopathic dose at 1:200 dilution.
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Some of those Passats must have been PD engines which have oil lubed unit injectors anyway"
two were the 140BHP sport and one was 170 BHP sport.
I was doing 20000 miles every 5-6 weeks weeks
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