I need some urgent practical advice following someone running into my car while it was parked outside my house. I’m in the process of selling this car having transferred my insurance to a newer vehicle. Fortunately, I have the full name and address and insurance details of the person who crashed into my old car. The parked car has an mot and road tax. First question...is it legal for a car to be parked on the road with no specific insurance, so long as it is roadworthy (MOT) and Taxed? Once a week I have been driving the car to keep it from seizing up, I have been driving it on the basis of third party only cover being provided by my new comprehensive insurance policy.
1. I figure so long as it is a legal lump of car that has been run into i.e it has a right to be there on a public road then regardless of my own insurance situation her company will pay up.
2. Is there anyway my Insurance company will “get involved” and pursue this claim for me as they would with a no fault accident when either third party or fully comp with the primary vehicle. Or will they say this is third party cover for secondary vehicles for which there is no claim being made and given the policy is not for this car then it is nothing to do with them and I’ll be left to fight it myself.
Anything I should or shouldn’t say, things they will looking to say to avoid paying up, general advice much appreciated.
Thanks, Ian
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Ian, sorry to hear about that, it's not a nice start to the new year.
I'm afraid I can't be of much specific help as I'm not fully clued up on the law.
However, I recently claimed off another driver's insurance, and they never asked for my details at all. For all they know I could have been un-insured, your best bet with this would be to keep quiet when claiming about your lack of cover.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that parking on a public road without valid third party cover is an offence. But I could be wrong.
Sorry I can't offer more help, or anything particularly re-assuring!
Blue
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Ian
From what you say I could be the conveyor of bad news.
You say you transfered the Insurance from the car that was hit to a newer version. Which means that the cover for the old vehicle has lapsed unless you have made specific arrangements with the insurance company. Which means the vehicle has been parked on a public road without Insurance which is required. Further your trips to charge the battery etc have been illegal.
The third party aspect of your new cover for the new car I suspect will not cover the other vehicle as you still own it unless as I have said your have made special arrangements.
So it looks as if you are in the mire and will have to cover out of your own pocket any claim the other may make, but (some light) if the other is Insured then you can make a claim for your damages. Becuase you are not Insured then this is a matter you will have to pursue yourself.
Seeing it is the New year and goodwill and all that I will give you a telephone no:
0500 224455 Helphire or (is 0500 now o8oo? - old reference)
or
0161 345 5544 Ellen Group
who are people that may well pursue a claim on your behalf if you are the innocent party. Used the first some 4 years ago when DIL was side swipped by grannie pulling out of junction. They looked after everything including a hire car.
There may be a small charge for their service (was £10).
But be truthful and hold nothing back.....
Good luck.
DVD
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Thanks Dwight very helpful I'll try those numbers tomorrow. I'm coming to the horrible realisation that a) my previous trips have been without any cover and b) according to the police it is an offence to have a car on the road without any cover (naturally they are assuming you are most likely to be using it!).
However....with or without separate third party cover the car would still have been where it was and she would still have driven into it. Does the fact I was strictly without insurance absolve her from all responsibilities when the car was stationary and roadworthy and as far as I'm going to say had never moved since I last pulled up in it and transferred the cover. I guess this is a general legal principle...does one offence make you fair game to all other road users i.e no mot someone smashes into car damaging driver's neck...no compensation because shouldn't have been where he was anyway in that car...???
I guess I'm going to have to pursue this myself with a solicitor/one of the groups you mention. If I'd parked this car off road then she would more than likely ran into a fully comp BMW instead worth 8x the car she did hit. I just hope she keeps her end honest and doesn't try any tricks not sure what to say when her insurance co. ask for my insurance co. though!
Keep the advice coming...I'm gutted over this! Ian
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The other parties insurance co. will have found out your insurance details from the new motor insurance industry central database, and as such would not need to ask you for the details...
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What depth does this database go to? It was most weird for the incident I had recently - they were able to find my address and phone number from just the registration of my car, but were and still are unable to locate my insurer...
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You do not need insurance or MOT to park your car on the road, only when you DRIVE the car. However you do need a valid tax disc.
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>>You do not need insurance or MOT to park your car on the road, only when you DRIVE the car. However you do need a valid tax disc.
Huh ? In your world, perhaps not. But I assure you that you do need insurance in this one.
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What world do you live in then?
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Mark,
The Road Traffic Act states that a person must have insurance and mot to USE the car on a public road. It all depends whether you can prove you do not intend to USE the vehicle. I think it is very unlikely that the bill would try to prosecute if the car was just parked. You must have tax to KEEP your vehicle on a public road. I hope that sorts out the facts for you.
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>>I hope that sorts out the facts for you.
It would, were it not for the fact that you are sadly, and completely, wrong.
You might try looking up the definition of \"use\" as it is used within the act, and see if you can spot the difference between that and \"drive\". If you do well with that, then you might like to have a stab at finding out what \"in the charge of\" means.
M.
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Mark,
Do you understand the difference between USE and KEEP?
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Simon, my clairvoyant powers see the termination of your account, again, if you continue being this rude to people. Do yourself a favour, and try not to get too worked up about things.
HF
Mark, Do you understand the difference between USE and KEEP?
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Mark and Dave,
I have just spoke to local police and they have told me that you must have tax, but as for insurance and mot if you can prove that you are not going to drive the vehicle then you are not breaking the law. They also said they would not prosecute anyone for not having insurance or mot unless they were caught driving the vehicle. Maybe the police interpret the law differently in different areas. I think we all are a bit right in this one, because the police could get funny about not having all the documents if they wanted to and you could not prove you were not intending to drive the vehicle , but it is very unlikely they would do so.
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A vehicle is in USE on the road even when it is stationary and unattended and it MUST BE Insured. (Elliott v Grey 1959 - Adams v Evans 1971)
The local Plod are wrong.
DVD
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I hope not. If they are then we are all in dire trouble.
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Simon,
You do need insurance and an MoT on a parked unattended motor vehicle on a road.Whether you intend to use it or not. Road Traffic Law is what I do. (and done for a very very long time)
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Simon, hopefully not starting another argument with you like previous encounters,
You do need insurance & an MOT to park your car on the road.
However if the vehicle is a few inches off the ground (6 inches the minimum I think) then you can leave it on the highway without an MOT & insurance. Same applies with road tax - providing you've SORNED. That is why you always see people who banger race either put the car on their private drive (off the public highway) or leave it on a trailer/transporter on the side of the road. Providing the vehicle isn't making contact with the road, then it can be in any state you desire it to be.
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>>I have the full name and address and insurance details of the
>>person who crashed into my old car.
Presumably given to you by that person ? In which case I assume that you had some type of discussion with her ? Did she admit it was her ? Did she say anything about the circumstances ?
>>First question...is it legal for a car to be parked on the
>>road with no specific insurance, so long as it is roadworthy
>>MOT) and Taxed?
It is not legal to keep it on the road, but you are not asking the correct question. Was it parked legally ? Was it Roadworthy ? Was it lit appropriately ? These things will affect an incident involving the car. Whether it was insured or not doesn´t affect the incident, or responsibility for that incident, although you may be spearately prosecuted if it comes to the attention of the police.
>>Once a week I have been driving the car to keep it from
>>seizing up, I have been driving it on the basis of third party
>>only cover being provided by my new comprehensive insurance
>>policy.
Third Party cover which is probably made most interesting by the fact that you don´t have it.
If you are relying on your DOC extension, which I suspect that you are, then it only covers cars not owned by you and not hired to you under a ire purchase agreement of not less than blah blah blah.
If you believe that you have some other extension offering you this cover, then write details here.
>>i.e it has a right to be there on a public road then
>>regardless of my own insurance situation her company will pay
>>up.
Well, you logic is flawed but you conclusion is correct. They will pay up irrespective of you lack of insurance.
2. Is there anyway my Insurance company will get involved
No.
Subject to you having an unusual policy extension, which is most unlikely.
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The only comment I can add here is when buying a new motor for er indoors we still had the old car for a short while.
The existing policy was transferred onto the new car, and the insurer wrote a temporary policy (TP F&T) on the old motor for a fixed term 3 months for..... wait for it...... £18.00
Couldn't quite reconcile that a years policy same car same terms was more than 4*£18, but there you go.
Realise hindsight is a wonderful thing but insurance is all about piece of mind. It meant the motor was covered while parked and on any demo drives. In the event first viewer bought it.
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Mark
Please settle my mind for I seem to recall I read somewhere that (in HJ case) if the other party (B) has not informed their insurance Company then they will not entertain a claim from the other party involved (A)?
So using HJ's case, what is one to to do?
1. Arrange repair and send bill to B who hopefully will settle or send to his Insurance Company.
2. Send repair bill direct to B's Insurance Company (but note what I have said earlier)
3. County Court action under Small Claims against B.
DVD.
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option 3.
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option 3.
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No way Cyd. It is stupid and pointless to involve the Small Claims Court in something which will almost definitely be sorted out direct, either by the driver or by them referring it to their insurance company.
option 1.
if no result, after a decent interval, option 3.
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Please settle my mind for I seem to recall I read somewhere that (in HJ case) if the other party (B) has not informed their insurance Company then they will not entertain a claim from the other party involved (A)?
\"Usually\" would be the answer...
There are two circumstances where they will/can.
Firstly, it is an injury claim and they are told to deal with it, with or without notification from their insured;
Secondly, they choose to deal with the claim because they feel that it will significantly minimise future losses. (could be an injury involved).
However, these two, and there are further variations, are both fairly significant moves, so it is rarely invoked. Especially since it could have implications for their insured party. They might weaken a defense where they were not fully aware of the circumstances, or worse their own insured party could become hostile in court.
Net answer to your question is that for all intents and purposes they will nto deal with a claim without notification of their insured party, although under some circumstances they can and will.
So using HJ\'s case, what is one to to do?
Firstly, anybody who goes from the accident happening to taking the other person to court will lose. The Courts are well known for making their decision based on the behaviour of the parties involved.
This is one reason why insurance companies and car parks are reluctant to defend such a claim - they receive very little sympathy and any tolerance and/or leeway and/or interpretation will always lean in favour of the individual.
So you should ensure that you are able to show that you behavewd reasonably and took all reasonable steps to resolve the issue before resorting to court.
So, copies of letters, records of telephone calls, evidence of losses including being able to justify how you have minimised your own losses are all important.
However, there is a further consideration;
1. Arrange repair and send bill to B who hopefully will settle or send to his Insurance Company.
If I had damage to my car and had to repair it myself, I might simply get the panel filled and resprayed. However, if it is coming off someone else´s insurance I will want the repair done properly.
Therefore, the problem with getting the repair done yourself is that you may choose the wrong type of repair.
I would say the following should be the steps (assuming they are being difficult);
-Tell them in writing that you hold them responsible and will be claiming from them.
-Have at least one, and preferably three, estimates for the repair.
-At least one of them should be in the form of a Pro Forma invoice. Essentially the difference between that and an estimate, is that the pro-forma will show the full cost of the repair including parts, labour, materials and sundries.
-Send it to them and ask them to pay or give their insurance details. Include details of other losses (minimised) such as buses, taxis, time lost etc.
-Send them another letter insisting you receive payment or insurance details by date x
-Send them another letter explaining that wihtout a satisfactory conclusion by date y, you will resort to legal means.
-Do so.
I have to rush, lunch date. I´ll try and explain further, or answer any more questions later.
M.
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Hey, DVD, did I answer your question ?
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Mark (Chile)
Mind now at rest and thanks to you. Very much appreciated.
DVD(Chilly)
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It's an offence to keep a motor vehicle on a road with No Insurance. The fact that you may be insured third party on your other policy (underline word may here) does not change the fact that the car is uninsured when you leave it parked up. I would discourage you from lying to your insurer at any pointotherwise, should they find out, they will chew you up and spit you out. They have much longer memories than the Police and Courts. You will also find it difficult to insure anything at all in the future.
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Most of your questions have been answered, except maybe
I guess I'm going to have to pursue this myself with a solicitor/one of the groups you mention...... I just hope she keeps her end honest and doesn't try any tricks not sure what to say when her insurance co. ask for my insurance co. though! <<
I have always dealt with my own claims, even where fully covered. When the other party's insurance Company write to you, they may ask for your insurance details (or suggest you pass on the papers to your Ins Co.) . If they are holding you responsible and claiming off you, you may have to provide these details; however in your current case can write back and tell them that you are personally dealing with the claim as it was entirely, 100%, the other driver at fault. Remember to follow Mark's advice regarding sending your claim letter to the other driver, and advising them to pass on the letter to their insurers (ensure a copy is sent direct to their Inssurer).
There are some useful "factsheets" at
www.handbag.com/motoring/
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oops, sorry - posted wrong link above from my favourites list. It should have been
accident.uk-car-insurance-advice.co.uk/
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Well thanks for the advice so far this has been extremely useful and partially reassuring. Am I to assume the following is the way forward?
1. Contact her insurance co. to see if she has informed them of the accident and admitted full liability.
2. Send her and her insurance company a letter stating I hold them solely responsible for the accident.
3. Suggest they collect/ask me to go to one of their approved repairers for an estimate.
4. Tomorrow arrange for some third party cover asap (if only as a sign of good intent as vehicle is now well an truely off road!)
Thanks for all the responses I'll keep you informed on progress. Ian
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Just to give you some re assurance,
Exactly the same thing happened to me except that I was insured. My car was hit by a Builders Merchant's lorry. The driver left contact details on the windscreen and I simply contacted them. Their insurance company took it from there. An admission of liability was made immediately and the car was repaired within a few weeks.
If the other driver is happy to put their hand up to liability, I suggest you ask for their insurer's details and ask them to report the accident.
Tell the other driver's insurers that you wish to treat this as a third party claim and not involve your insurance. They should be quite happy to deal on this basis.
The fact that you are not insured should not be a reason to avoid paying for the damage. The fact that you have been taking the odd trip without insurance shouldn't be an issue, This is irrelevent to the claim and should not be divulged.
Good luck
Hugo
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3. Suggest they collect/ask me to go to one of their approved repairers for an estimate.
Well, you could. How urgent are the repairs ? Has she told her insurer ?
4. Tomorrow arrange for some third party cover asap (if only as a sign of good intent as vehicle is now well an truely off road!)
Forget the good intent. If you are using it then insure it, if you are not and its not on the road then don´t.
However, next time, read your insurance policy and endorsements properly. Do you want to think about what would have happened if you´d thumped another car up the back and had someone come after you for whiplash ? That would put saving a few quid on your insurance into perspective.
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Next time ask your insurance company when you change to a new car about covering the old one until it's sold. I did that and Direct Line gave me 3 weeks cover for free on the old one.
Martin
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Ian
You mention "my insurance company." You will have already got the point but you do not have an insurance company - in the case of this vehicle anyway.
It is my understanding of third party insurance that the insurers do not pursue a claim on you behalf as they have nothing to lose or gain. Therefore as in your case you are on your own with or without insurance and the route is well documented above.
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Yes, the thought of a personal injury claim whilst tootling round to keep the thing from seizing up had occured to me as well. I will certainly not make this mistake again and just hope the claim goes as well as some people here have suggested it might. In the meantime thanks for the transatlantic legal advice, I would imagine that doesn't normally come cheap..even free!! Ian
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Ian, when I had to claim on the other driver's insurance after my accident. I dealt directly with Direct Line, and the girl on the phone said somehing to the effect of, "OK, so you're just going to deal with us so there's no need to inform your insurance company", Hmmm.. Not strictly true, however, they certainly never tried asking for my details.
It was all settled nicely, and they were probably just as pleased to avoid having to deal with another insurance company as that would only add to their admin and general costs I would imagine.
Blue
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