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Clamping illegal in October - pullgees

"From October it will be an offence in England and Wales to clamp, tow or immobilise a vehicle without lawful authority".

www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/about-news.aspx?ne...7

The only thing is what does lawful authority entail?

Clamping illegal in October - jamie745

I would hope lawful authority means only the Police and Council can do it, not any private parking womble in a Peugeot van.

Clamping illegal in October - Bobbin Threadbare

What J said - except I might even say leave the council out of that as well....!

Clamping illegal in October - jamie745

Yes in my view Councils should be in charge of nothing more than ribbon cutting, flower baskets and plaques.

Clamping illegal in October - pullgees

Yes in my view Councils should be in charge of nothing more than ribbon cutting, flower baskets and plaques.

There should be a like button, anyway, Like

Clamping illegal in October - unthrottled

With vehicle details easily available from the DVLA, there's no excuse for clamping. Isn't clamping for parking offences a bit ironic anyway?!

Speeding, yes!

Anyone caught speeding, has a clamp fitted to their rear wheel and has to drive around with the clamp attached for a week.

Clamping illegal in October - gordonbennet

Be careful what you wish for, when some shaven headed thug parks on your property to go to the shops or visit the pub or girlfriend several times a day or week what exactly are you going to do about, what if a commuter chooses your land to abandon his vehicle on daily?

Some people plagued by those who have no manners, decency, honour (possibly a majority in some areas) have no recourse but to authorise clampers to deter problem parkers.

Clamping illegal in October - bathtub tom

>>what exactly are you going to do about it?

Haven't we all got that left over tube of expanding foam (or bellboy's spud) to insert up their tailpipe?

Tow away charge?

Diagnostics?

Silencer?

Clamping illegal in October - pullgees

Be careful what you wish for, when some shaven headed thug parks on your property to go to the shops or visit the pub or girlfriend several times a day or week what exactly are you going to do about, what if a commuter chooses your land to abandon his vehicle on daily?

Some people plagued by those who have no manners, decency, honour (possibly a majority in some areas) have no recourse but to authorise clampers to deter problem parkers.

Good point but isn't trespassing a criminal offence?

Clamping illegal in October - jamie745

Why would a commuter abandon his car on my driveway daily?

Good point but isn't trespassing a criminal offence?

No, civil offence. Unless its sensitive Government property I do believe.

Edited by jamie745 on 02/05/2012 at 18:54

Clamping illegal in October - unthrottled

what if a commuter chooses your land to abandon his vehicle on daily?

Then you authorise a parking enforcement company to collect fines. They've got the registration plate and ownership details. I'm not asking for a free-for-all with respect to parking. But effectively confiscating a car is over the top.

A Penalty Charge Notice through the letterbox is just as effective a deterrant, but a lot fairer.

Clamping illegal in October - jamie745

Then you authorise a parking enforcement company to collect fines. They've got the registration plate and ownership details. I'm not asking for a free-for-all with respect to parking. But effectively confiscating a car is over the top.

A Penalty Charge Notice through the letterbox is just as effective a deterrant, but a lot fairer.

More people are cottoning onto the fact PCN's have no legal basis. The clampers we need to get rid of are the ones who wait for you to stop on their land, then block you in with a van to prevent you from leaving (with you still in the car) and clamp you despite trying to leave.

Parking enforcement companies generally dont fix the problems though. We went through this on HJ in the past when a woman who owns a small business piped up on here saying she uses the parking company to issue fines to people who park in her loading zone, but then she went on to say 'theres always a car there!!' which proves the fines dont work.

Fining one motorist means one motorist wont return. Putting up an electronic barrier means no motorists will ever park there.

Clamping illegal in October - jamie745

Just read the article. I used to do some admin in security and essentially this means wheel clamping is illegal from October this year, quite straight forward really. Police will still be able to do it if required I would think. Currently only SIA licenced staff can do so providing they have the VI category entitlement. From October, that will cease and licences will become void. This will probably include councils because they outsource this work to SIA licenced firms.

Victory!!!

Edited by jamie745 on 02/05/2012 at 20:01

Clamping illegal in October - Avant

If you have cars parking on your land without permission, write 'Private land - please do not park here' on a piece of card and then superglue it to their windscreen in the line of the driver's sight.

Clamping illegal in October - bonzo dog

There's a group of local shopkeepers downtown who, in an attempt to rertain customers who can park with ease at the supermarkets, have clubbed together to lease a plot of land for their customers to park on.

Of course even though there are signs saying "No Parking except for customers of XXXXX" the car park was nearly always full of cars not belonging to customers.

So they started issueing penalty notices - completely ignored; but when the wheelclampers were brought in, guess what - the problem disappeared because the majority of those parking without being customers were shop & office workers who wanted to park free of charge for the day.

But effectively confiscating a car is over the top.

A deterent is only a deterent if it deters.

Clamping illegal in October - unthrottled

A deterent is only a deterent if it deters.

I think certain countries make the same argument for public amputation. Sounds like a reasonable idea in the pub after a few scoops. But not the sort of thing you want in practice.

Penalties must be proportionate. A parking ticket is enough to deter most people from repeating the offence. If a car is wearing false plates, the driver will simply cut the clamp off anyway.

Clamping illegal in October - Bromptonaut

The banning of clamping except by LA's (little used outside London) is part of the Protection of Freedoms Act which got Royal Assent yesterday.

The quid pro quo is that private parking tickets become enforceable against the keepr.

Clamping illegal in October - jamie745

In the case mentioned above of the shop, its likely the cars which were frequently parked there were often the same ones belonging to people who worked nearby, so clamping them would solve that. In the instance of an earlier case we had on the HJ Back Room, it was always different cars and it never worked because the following day someone else who hadn't been there before would park there.

The quid pro quo is that private parking tickets become enforceable against the keeper.

Well currently a PCN from a private company has no legal basis, in this country a private company cannot issue a fine, only a court can issue a fine, so long as they're not changing that fundamental then I'm not bothered. If they were giving Tesco the right to fine people I'm pretty sure the news would've picked up on it by now.

Clamping illegal in October - Bromptonaut

Well currently a PCN from a private company has no legal basis, in this country a private company cannot issue a fine, only a court can issue a fine, so long as they're not changing that fundamental then I'm not bothered. If they were giving Tesco the right to fine people I'm pretty sure the news would've picked up on it by now.

No right ot fine but s56 & Sch 4 give right to recover unpaid charges against keeper. The Act itself is not yet published but late text of the bill is here. Don't think the relevant sections were changed in Lords v Commons 'ping pong'.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2010-2012/0128/lbill_2010-20120128_en_6.htm#pt3-ch2-pb2-l1g56

Charges such as those for overstaying the free period on M/way services or a Supermarket or for venturing onto private land (where reasonsble notice given) will likley be recoverable. Let's see what happens but the media's record for correctly blowing the whistle on dodgy legislation is pi**poor.

Clamping illegal in October - bonzo dog

Penalties must be proportionate

Behaviour is either acceptable or unacceptable.

If the latter then steps need to be taken in order to try & prevent it (complete prevention is impossible) & IMO if the steps currently used do not prevent it adequately then a decision needs to be taken on whether to consider the behaviour acceptable, consider that the behaviour is at an acceptable level or intensify the steps in an increased attempt to prevent.

In the case of parking on someone else's property the state appears to have taken one of the first two stances as it has in the case of so called "soft" drugs

I think certain countries make the same argument for public amputation. Sounds like a reasonable idea in the pub after a few scoops

I certainly do not need a few inside me to determine what action I believe is required, & yes I would advocate extremely harsh punishments for persistant offenders because ultimately if you cannot deter someone from continually commiting offences then you need to prevent them from being able to offend

Clamping illegal in October - Barking Mad

I would hope lawful authority means only the Police and Council can do it, not any private parking womble in a Peugeot van.

I agree that the shaven head mob should be put out of business BUT I represent a business estate with parking for tennants only. How will we now enforce non parking by commuters, cafe users etc who dont care about PCN's as they are almost unenforceble in the 'civilian' world. Only Councils & Police have real teeth on this.

I can see many problems ahead in private land being used as free storage for the other mob of idiots who think they can use other peoples property just as they like.

I repeat the SIA should take away licenses of the parking enforcement vandals and allow proper decent firms to do the job they are paid for. (I have no connection to any clamping firm or SIA licensed operator)

Clamping illegal in October - 1litregolfeater

And they said nationalisation of our industries was a thing of the past.

So instead of being wheel clamped by some psycho, you will be clamped or fined by a little man in a uniform instead. Backed up by CCTV and Police.

I suppose that is what passes for progress these days.

Clamping illegal in October - TeeCee

Doesn't matter who puts it on, the bolt croppers in the boot will still take it off.

Clamping illegal in October - pullgees

Land owners can still issue a 'parking charge' but not a fine and it must not resemble a PCN. Of course the hassle of retreiving the charge is probably not worth the trouble. Getting details from DVLA possibly going to small claims court etc. It can only be achieved by bluff.

Clamping illegal in October - bananastand

trespass is a civil offence. If it was criminal as it is in certain neighbouring countries, we wouldn't have quite so many members of a certain community or communities. Robin Page in the Telegraph divides them into about five subsets. Ah well.

Clamping illegal in October - pullgees

trespass is a civil offence. If it was criminal as it is in certain neighbouring countries, we wouldn't have quite so many members of a certain community or communities. Robin Page in the Telegraph divides them into about five subsets. Ah well.

I do remember though in 1986 The Battle of the Beanfield where 1000 police were assembled to remove forcibly a convoy of 'New Age Travellors'. so I'm not clear on tresspass laws at all. Mind you this was before the trump card of human rights.

Clamping illegal in October - Bilboman

Another angle on this occurs to me. In a previous posting regarding access to homes, it seems that blocking someone's driveway access which prevents a car exiting is actionable as "obstruction", whereas blocking it and preventing the homeowner from parking on his own drive is not. Time to wheel in the big guns and enable a private homeowner to sue those who park blocking his driveway?
Well nigh time trespass was codified into criminal law IMHO, and I think the German model is one to follow. A landowner has the right to peaceful enjoyment of his land, and someone who trespasses on it is breaking the Landfrieden or "land peace" IIRC, and you can call the police. Also, in Spain, an entrance to a driveway can, on payment of a fee to the local council, be marked with no parking/no waiting (red cross on blue background) and, again, BIBsd can intervene. The only downside is that the landowner cannot himself park on the street thus blocking his own drive entrance. Swings and roundabouts!

Clamping illegal in October - bananastand

A lot of people would have nicer lives if trespass was criminal. Those of you who cling to PC notions of non-judgementalism would soon abandon them if you were victims of "those" communities.