Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice

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Thu 26 Apr 2012 23:25
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - boz1449
Hi have just read your item on Wed 5 Aug 2009 05:09  UKPC parking Services Fine - Honestjohn

I was sent a charge notice for parking at a McDonalds in Skegness it was my wife driving , I sent this reply by iPad have I done wrong and ware do I go from here?

To uk parking control ltd

I am writing to concerning charge notice I received on the 25th April 2012.

I visited the McDonald's restaurant in Skegness with my two children and disabled mother, the weather was appalling with very heavy rain and gales, we rushed from the car into the restaurant with speed hence we did not notice the signs that advised the two hour parking rule. We were in the restaurant eating and chatting with the staff at no time did any of them advise us about the parking timeframe.


With this in mind I was hoping you could waiver the charge, it is not my intention to duck out of this charge however considering the circumstances on this occasion I feel the situation deserves some leniency. We were only six minutes over the time allowance and the car park was very quiet due to the poor weather so we weren't stopping anyone else from using the car park and were using the facilities there.

Kind regards



I put my wife name here

Please help

Kind regards

Boz1449
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Fri 27 Apr 2012 00:20
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - tony g
Hi boz ,
I'm sorry to say you have admitted your guilt to UK parking control ,you confirmed that you overstayed your allocated time .

UKPC is a commercial organisation that makes its living from the fees it collects .There is no reason why they should waive the fee ,they're not McDonald's and are unlikely to waive thier charge as a good will gesture .

The only way to deal with private parking companies is to ignore them . It's simply not worth them pursing a disputed fee via the courts .

Sadly you have made there job much easier by admitting what you did .The best thing to do ,is simply pay up ,before they add additional fees .

Regards


Tony g
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Fri 27 Apr 2012 13:28
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - concrete

Hello BOZ1499, It is unreasonable to ask anyone to pay possibly £60 for a six minute overstay, especially when you were spending money at the premises. You are effectively in the same position as you were before contacting them, which was a bad move. You have not admitted who was driving the car, only that you visited the site. In order to proceed they need to know who was driving. So do not contact them again.The charge notice they sent you is an invoice, it is not a legal document and does not constitute a debt. In order to collect they must first take the DRIVER to the Small Claims section of the County Court. This costs them hundreds of pounds. They then have to convince a judge that they or their client(McDonalds) suffered damages as a result of your actions. The only damage they can allude to is being deprived of the use of a parking space for six minutes. That may even prove difficult as there were other free parking spaces available at the time. What would a judge award for six minutes excess parking? Not much is my guess. I also think a judge may consider their action against you as frivolous and uneccessary. You have more chance of a ride on Flipper than being taken to court. From now on they will escalate there claims by letter, doubling the so called charge, then you might get a letter from a solicitors office or even from a debt collector. They will threaten you with all sorts of terrible things. IGNORE the lot, DO NOT REPLY, they are only threats and stamps are cheap. If you get these and are not sure what to do come back to the forum. Eventually they will give up. I have been through this several times myself so do not be intimidated by their threats. Keep us posted on the forum and let us know the latest threats they come up with. Good luck. Concrete

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Fri 27 Apr 2012 19:01
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - boz1449
Hi concrete ,
Thanks for your response I have received this response from them.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your correspondence.

This PCN was issued correctly and legally according to DVLA Code of Practice for the management of camera controlled private car parks and British Parking Association guidelines.  

As the required procedure was not followed a valid PCN was correctly issued.

In light of your claims, we are prepared to reconsider the status of this notice should we receive a copy of both sides of your Blue Badge. On receipt of your evidence the status of the PCN may be reconsidered. However, until such time as this is received the notice will continue to remain active.

We will continue to accept the amount of £50 in full settlement for this notice, if received within 14 days of the date of this correspondence.  If payment, or evidence of your claims, is not received within this timeframe then the full amount will be due.  

Yours faithfully,

UK Parking Control Ltd

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Sat 28 Apr 2012 10:05
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - daveyjp
I would not correspond further. Do not send any blue badge details, they have no authority to demand them and Blue Badge rules do not apply in private car parks.

Ignore anything else. Plenty of advice if you google private parking tickets.

Ignore Tony G advice to pay up,they can add whatever fees they like, all will be unlawful and thrown out as a penalty against an individual.

If they want their money they will have to pursue you through the courts. These companies are no better than 'you've won the Nigerian Lottery' scammers.

Edited by daveyjp on 28/04/2012 at 10:08

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Sat 28 Apr 2012 15:46
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - Dwight Van Driver

Be very,very careful if intended to follow daveyjp advice above ^^^^^^^^

Why? In responding letter to the PCN they now have, on the balance of probabilities, that the poster was the driver and whilst not 100 per cent implicit that he was, a normal person would say "yes." Armed with this information they have an avenue to take County Court action against the poster with some chance of success which they would not have had ,had poster not responded - they had no driver to sue.

Whether or not they will take action who knows but with a fair chance of success plus their costs it will be a serious consideration for them.

Personally, with die cast as it is, I would be considering losing my £50 quid before they start escaling the charge.

I am aware that if there were proceedings the question whether the charge was exorbitant could be raised.

dvd

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Sat 28 Apr 2012 17:50
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - tony g
(Ignore Tony G advice to pay up,they can add whatever fees they like, all will be unlawful and thrown out as a penalty against an individual. )

Davey
Your completely wrong ,when you use the car park you enter into a civil contract .Part of the civil contract states that you as a user agree to stay a maximum of two hours .you also agree to pay a fee of £60 if you exceed the two hour maximum .Simply by using the car park you agree to these terms and conditions .
Unlawful doesn't come into it ,the only issue here is a civil contract between the car park provider and the car park user .

I agree that the op should not enter into any further correspondence with the parking company ,he's already done his case damage by writing to them .he needs to wait and see what happens next .However he needs to be aware that the parking company will add additional fees that will be payable if they decide to pursue him .In addition the more money he owes , the more vigerously he will be pursued for the debt .

The length of time he overstayed is irrelevant .

Tony g
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Sat 28 Apr 2012 18:05
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - daveyjp
Tony g please let us know where you get your 'facts' from regarding contract law. It certainly isn't from any of the law books I have read over the last 20 years.

Even if it goes to Court and the driver stands up and says "yes I was the driver" a well defended case would still fail as there is nothing in UK contract law which makes it lawful to impose a penalty in excess of actual losses and there are recent cases to back this up.

Imagine a pub put up a sign saying "by buying a drink you have entered a contract for left handed drinking only, using the right hand will incur a charge of £100". If you were caught drinking right handed would you simply pay up because there is a sign behind the bar with this statement on it?

Private parking signs are no different.
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Sat 28 Apr 2012 20:06
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - tony g
Hi davey ,more reading ,less time in the pub required.

For a contract to be valid under the law of England/Wales, there must be:
a. an offer (whether to sell or to buy) from offeror; and
b. an acceptance by offeree of that offer; and
c. an intention to create contractual relationship.

Please see above a simple definition of contract law .

As it applies in this case ,

A . The offer is the option to park on the owners premises.subject to conditions.
B. An acceptance by the user of clearly defined and displayed conditions when using the car park.
C. By using the car park,a contract is formed between the two parties ,subject to clearly displayed terms .

Think about it , if parking on premises like these wasnt subject to terms and conditions .Whats to stop somebody parking their motor home on McDonald's car park for a week free of charge .

Convenient ,if you like the rubbish they sell ,and much cheaper than paying for space on a local caravan site .

I would still advise anyone to ignore private parking fee demands ,simply because they're so difficult to enforce by civil law . But you would still be breaching the civil contract you entered into when you opted to use the car park .

Tony g








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Thu 3 May 2012 23:01
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - boz1449
I would like to thank everyone for there help just to keep you up todate I wrote to McDonalds and they sorted out ukpc

Thant you

Boz
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Sat 28 Apr 2012 23:27
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - Avant

Tony and DVD are of course quite correct as to the legal position. Davey, your point about penalties is I think more relevant to situations where a plaintiff is claiming excessive damages for loss - which Is different from this case.

The only valid defence in contract is if the terms and conditions weren't displayed clearly. The OP was in a rush with wet weather and a disabled passenger - but the law upholds that which is reasonable so under normal conditions would they have been seen?

I personally would send copies of the blue badge in as it sounds as if the parking company are prepared to excercise goodwill. If they take their time in replying and then uphold the penalty, there will be a good case for sending them no more than the £50.

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Thu 3 May 2012 23:00
Vw passat - Ukpc charge notice - boz1449
I would like to thank everyone for there help just to keep you up todate I wrote to McDonalds and they sorted out ukpc

Thant you

Boz
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