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mini roundabout rules - heavyfuel

Hello eveyone.

I use a certain mini roundabout many times a day. It has four exits like a compass when viewed from above.

Apologies if this sounds clear as mud but its the best way i can think of to explain without a diagram. The scene is often exactly like this:

I am at the south point wanting to go north. (straight on)

There is nobody to my right (east)

There is nobody to my left (west)

There is a que of cars (say 5 for example) at the north point and they want to turn to their right and head west.

The first car wanting to head from north to west is at the line before me. I wait for him/her to go as in my eyes they are on the roundabout first.

The next car wants to do the same as above (north to west ) but I think it should now be my right of way as I am on the roundabout (or technically at the line) before them. Am I misunderstanding something here? I can't find any definte advice for this situation.

I know its a bit give and take sometimes but I find in the above scenario as soon as i let one car in a string of them who all want to go north to west automatically presume its their right of way.

Its as if they believe that you must give way to someone turning right.

I'm not an impatient driver, or aggressive. I would just like to know if there is a fixed rule.

Thanks

HF

mini roundabout rules - Bilboman

I would tend to follow three principles: 1. what the law states; 2. common sense; 3. common practice. Unfortunately, this may produce three different answers; not a lot of help!

There is only one paragraph in the Highway Code (188) on mini roundabouts: "Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this." Not much help there. The rule about going ROUND the painted central marking is generally ignored by drivers, so your mini-roundabout is something of a free-for-all and survival of the fittest/fastest prevails.

Common sense would suggest a kind of "zip merge", with drivers more or less moving in turn: somewhere between a US "four way stop" and the eminently practical "alternating priority" in the Channel Islands, which makes traffic flow smoothly. Zip merging has long been thought of as un-British and plans to introduce a road sign to order zip merging were abandoned when research showed that courtesy (the endless "After you, Claude" and flashes of lights ad infinitum) prevails over pragmatism.

So finally, the "common practice" of what drivers do in day to day reality: it may be that 90% of drivers using that mini roundabout have an idea of how things "should" work and follow a sort of inbuilt system. The instinct to give way to right-turners, rightly or wrongly, is a reflection of this.

Fixed rule? Naaah - anarchy rules! And I'm quite sure that any collisions on a mini roundabout (not really likely given the low speeds and drivers' edginess when facing the unknown) would always end in an insurance "knock-for-knock". Happy motoring!


mini roundabout rules - thunderbird

What is the issue, they are a roundabout only smaller. If you do anything out of ordinary and have an accident hopefully you will be prosecuted.

mini roundabout rules - jc2

On a police driving course,I was told by a senior instructor that mini-roundabouts(and much else on the road),only work because the average driver is selfish-if the rules were followed exavtly,ALL traffic would come to a halt.

mini roundabout rules - heavyfuel

I see what you mean about people acting on how they 'think' it should be. I suppose I'm just doing the same in a way so can't get on my soapbox.

I agree with you that the speeds on such a small roundabout are hopefully slow enough to avoid a collision so there is not too much concern providing people are sensible.

The same thing happened this morning. Someone is on the roundabout turning north to west (as i approach) so I wait for them to pass, then before you know it a whole string of others automatically flow through without even giving me a chance to go or even let them go. They just assume as it was a green traffic light.

Thinking about it, they probably take the view that as the roundabout is so small as soon as they enter it they will be to my right. Perhaps thats the reason behind their thinking.

I really just wish they would at lest acknowledge you, a simple nod or wave would be nice rather than a mouthful of abuse. People seem to get very angry on this particular mini roundabout all it needs to take the sting out of it is a wave that either says 'yes, sorry my bad' or 'thank you'.

Think I'll just go with the flow on this one and let the angry ones drive on their way to the next road rage ro accident.

The zip merging sounds intereting, I have heard people mention this before on lane mergers where it makes particular sense in my opinion. I guess the toruble would be introducing it as people have done things a certain way for so long.

Thanks for your comments.

mini roundabout rules - unthrottled

The issue with roundabouts is that the there is a minimum crirical size, below which they become completely useless. Roundabouts need a certain distance between exits so that traffic can safely merge onto the roundabout.

I have the same problem as OP. Whenever I meet someone on the opposite side of the roundabout, confusion arises. mini roundabouts are crap! I drive straight over the middle of them to show my disgust for their impotent uselessness.

Bilbaoman-I see zip merging in action every time the traffic slows to a crawl. Most people default to zip merging at a T junction regardless of priority in these conditions.

mini roundabout rules - Man without a plan

Unless I misunderstand...

Unless the first car coming from North to West is going super fast, then surely by the time that car is across your path, the car behind it is also entering onto the roundabout, so again if they are on the roundabout you must give way... and again once they are across your path, the car behind them will be entering the roundabout?

Hope I explained that well?

mini roundabout rules - component part

In response to OP. It's just a roundabout isn't it? Therefore give way to the right technically prevails at all times, if you're unlucky enough to be stuck at your South point by a continuous stream of North to West traffic turning right across your path then it's tough luck. If the traffic was crawling I would expect to be let through by the turning drivers but if it's flowing then you just have to wait I'd expect.

At mini roundabouts I tend to use my wits, and then the rule book. I.e. if I was you approaching from the South and there was a load of cars waiting at the North point to turn to the West point if the first car wasn't moving or was hesitating I would just keep going. Obviously got to be careful to avoid right of way violations.

mini roundabout rules - unthrottled

herefore give way to the right technically prevails at all times, if you're unlucky enough to be stuck at your South point by a continuous stream of North to West traffic turning right across your path then it's tough luck.

North and South are reversible! ie you are to the right of traffic coming from the North, so they shouldn't continue to enter the roundabout.

Whatever the rules mini roundabouts do not work as roundabouts should. A give way sign would make much more sense.

mini roundabout rules - Bobbin Threadbare

The mini roundabout is the same as a regular sized one. You're not really supposed to drive over it unless you are a large vehicle.

You can sometimes end up with a standoff, where everyone is waiting for everyone else on their right to go. I hate this sort of dithering and make it obvious with signals etc that I will go - a firm decision is needed! There are two of the damn things on my route to the supermarket. The number of people who do not know whose right of way it is is shocking.

mini roundabout rules - unthrottled

The number of people who do not know whose right of way it is is shocking.

I'm one of them! Please enlighten me. If you have a car at North and a car at South, they both on each other's right, thus they should both give way to each other, no?

mini roundabout rules - heavyfuel

You're all making fair points and i suppose i wasn't thinking about it from their point of view as much as i should.

Man without a plan; I must admit i did not think of it your way but it does make sense. If they are all turning right by the time the first one is turning around the roundabout the car behind him/her enters it and is therefore technically to my right.

I do understand they have the same rules as regular roundabouts but was wondering if other people had similar thoughts, regarding the same situation.

I still think they need a warning sign for road rage, the amount i see on that roundabout is a tad worrying (even if its not me causing the trouble). Why do some people take driving personally to the extreme. I might rant on a forum but at least I dont wind windows down and hurl abuse.

Its good to hear other peoples opinions on here

mini roundabout rules - RT

Most junctions can cause road rage if one or more of the drivers is inconsiderate.

The mini roundabout dilemma is no different to a cross-roads where two vehicles arrive together from exactly opposite directions and both want to turn right (and the junction isn't signed as nearside-to-nearside turning).

It's down to assessing the "body" language of the other car - if they look decisive/aggressive I let them go first but if they look indecisive then I'll go first to stop both of us losing time through dithering.

mini roundabout rules - unthrottled

Be better if they put up 'priority to X direction' signs as they do with chicanes. That way the dilemma would disappear.

mini roundabout rules - ijws15
Roundabouts work where there is flow from each entry.

You wait until there is no-one to your right on the roundabout, what I expect to happen is someone comes from your left and breaks the flow.

Roundabouts don't work well where flows are unbalanced.
mini roundabout rules - Bobbin Threadbare

The number of people who do not know whose right of way it is is shocking.

I'm one of them! Please enlighten me. If you have a car at North and a car at South, they both on each other's right, thus they should both give way to each other, no?

Yes, thus destroying the universe.

mini roundabout rules - 1litregolfeater

It's priority to the right. Simple as that. If there is somene already on it, you must give way to them, obviously.

If the person who has priority is hesitating, you just throttle ahead, with brakes in good order.

Try not to make any hand signs as you accelerate through.

mini roundabout rules - unthrottled

Did you not bother to read the discussion before weighing in?

mini roundabout rules - Leif

As others have said it is a bit of a dilemma. Ordinarily what you say about taking it in turns, or using time of arrival at the roundabaout to assign priority does make sense. Someone has referred to a continuous stream of cars from the north, going west, which will block you off. That is the failing of the roundabout, and if that is a common occurrence then lights would be more appropriate. All you can do is wait, and wait, and wait.

I can think of a right turn in Haslemere, leading to Tesco, where it is impossible to turn right without ignoring a red light if there is oncoming traffic, due to nincompoop light phasing. I guess roads are not perfect.

mini roundabout rules - IRC

Although as long as the stop light is crossed during the green phase then waiting and finishing the right turn after the lights go red is legal. The offence being committed by crossing the stop line when the light is at red.