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Do you own a Hybrid? - iamafreeman

Now that the cost of diesel is going ever higher when I come to change my car I've seriously considered a hybrid.However, I know little about them and couldn't afford a new one.

The model that seems best for me is the Toyota Prius but also Honda have a couple of suitable models.

If anyone has some experience of a hybrid and has some advice or warnings about batteries, spares and servicing costs I'd be grateful for a response?

Must be honest the replacement cost and life of the batteries is what bothers me most.

Thanks.

Edited by iamafreeman on 06/04/2012 at 09:52

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

I've driven a Prius as my work has them as pool cars. To answer your question about costs, the Prius does make good sense. It's a typical Toyota in terms of reliability, the Hybrid Drive setup very rarely experiences failures and Prius Taxi's in NYC have run to 400k without incident. I presume you're looking at a used second generation 1.5, servicing is fine because any garage can do it as its just a basic 1.5litre petrol engine. Insurance costs are low and other consumables are on par with everything else in the sector.

It has no conventional starter motor or alternator so thats two things which can't go wrong, it does 50mpg on cheaper fuel than diesel and they rarely go wrong.

Hope this helps.

Do you own a Hybrid? - Dovile

all the above, though i have auris hybrid, not prius.

Do you own a Hybrid? - Chickenwire

Hi there, we've got one of the little Lexusssss (what is the plural of Lexus?) based on the Prius; it's great because we do mainly urban driving and our fuel usage has gone through the floor as a result. It's been absolutely reliable and we're coming up, in July for a year's ownership. We're paying for servicing on a monthly deal and the car has been a delight, it's quiet, refined and, in general quite comfortable although the ride on the 17" rims is slightly on the firm side, but not the firmest I've ever experienced...

We do an occasional 100mile journey, and it's not as good as a 2.0l diesel in terms of m-way economy but, in terms of 90% urban driving we've reduced our fuel bills to just 1/4 of what we would have expected in our 5y/o 1 series Beemer. It's £45 to fill up, and this lasts us all the month until our 100m each way journey. Plus, still no VED and we get Lexus roadcare for two more years saving us another few quid as well.

To sum up, ask yourself where you do your driving. If it's in London or urban, seriously consider a Prius or another form of hybrid. If it's mainly M-way or A-road you'd be much better going for a reliable diesel.

Do you own a Hybrid? - thunderbird

OK, diesel costs a few pence more than petrol but a hybrid still cannot approach the MPG of a diesel. Hybrids cost more to buy than a diesel plus how much will they be worth come trade in time with the possibility of a battery pack replacement looming.

Chickenwire, my 4 year old BMW 1 series does 48mpg in a mix of town and A road driving, to reduce this to a 1/4 as you suggest I would have to do 192mpg in a hybrid, somehow don't think that is possible. I pay £30 a year road tax so not much extra there.

At present the econonomics don't add up, stick to what works.

Do you own a Hybrid? - RT

Hybrids are good, ie efficient, at recovering energy during braking and supplementing the petrol/diesel energy during acceleration - like F1 KERS.

Hybrids are bad, ie less efficient, at steady speed cruising because there's nowhere to get their energy from and the mere presence of hybrid components creates more drag/weight.

Hybrids are good for taxis and buses because they're constant stop/start - for private cars, they only work on commuter runs but a bike or public transport would be better.

Do you own a Hybrid? - unthrottled

Hybrids are good, ie efficient, at recovering energy during braking and supplementing the petrol/diesel energy during acceleration - like F1 KERS.

Regenerative braking is a bit faddy-and if you don't know what you're doing, it'll cost you mpg.

The problem is that people think that braking becomes 'free' ie you get back what you put in. You get back a small amount of what you put in-it's still better not to brake at all if you can avoid it. We see the same problem with Stop-Start. People want to stop so the system kicks in!

You really have to baby Li-ion batteries to get decent life times out of them. They don't like cold ambient temperatures, deep discharge, fast charging, fast discharging, Monday mornings etc. Toyota have been conservative with the battery duty cycle-which is why the batteries have lasted so well. But you would not expect the batteries to last as long if the manufacturers start sweating them to get big mpg numbers. We saw the same thing happen with diesels.

I'm not anti-hybrid-they do make sense for certain situations, but the concept leaves me cold.

Do you own a Hybrid? - TeeCee

You really have to baby Li-ion batteries to get decent life times out of them.

Which is probably why Toyota actually use NiMH packs then.......

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

OK, diesel costs a few pence more than petrol but a hybrid still cannot approach the MPG of a diesel. Hybrids cost more to buy than a diesel plus how much will they be worth come trade in time with the possibility of a battery pack replacement looming.

A hybrid can approach the mpg of a diesel. I got 55mpg out of the Prius, what 5 door automatic diesels can do that? Secondly the battery pack's are guaranteed by Toyota for 8 years and very rarely go wrong anyway, they're well documented to do over 200,000 miles without incident and a used hybrid retains its value better than a 150k diesel with DPF and DMF replacements looming.

Chickenwire, my 4 year old BMW 1 series does 48mpg in a mix of town and A road driving, to reduce this to a 1/4 as you suggest I would have to do 192mpg in a hybrid, somehow don't think that is possible. I pay £30 a year road tax so not much

You're comparing a (i presume) manual little hatchback with a large automatic? Nobody with legs can sit in the back of a 1 series and the boot is purely for decoration.

At present the econonomics don't add up, stick to what works.

Given all the diesel reliability threads on here I'm not sure you could say categorically that diesel 'works' and hybrids certainly don't. Diesel worked 15 years ago but now its a liability.

Do you own a Hybrid? - nortones2

Well said jamie. Not everyone wants or needs a diesel. Too much potential bother if you don.'t fit the corporate template.

Do you own a Hybrid? - balleballe

55mpg? was that brim to brim?

That's impressive

Do you own a Hybrid? - colinh

Have done 4,400 miles in my Auris HSD since January, but that includes 3,500 miles on motorways, when it's not at its best. My overall mpg (brim-to-brims) is 53.3; whilst for the past month, which has been local runs, it has been 61.5. Previous cars were a Kia petrol automatic which achieved 37.7, and a VW DSG diesel with 50.4, both doing the same type of overall motoring mix.

Note - my region of Spain gives hybrids a subsidy, so the extra over a petrol automatic came "free".

Edited by colinh on 15/04/2012 at 12:21

Do you own a Hybrid? - gordonbennet

Well said jamie. Not everyone wants or needs a diesel. Too much potential bother if you don.'t fit the corporate template.

Agreed, i remember Jamie's short time with a Prius which he wrote about here, he didn't rate the thing prior to that as i recall, but his time with one i believe gave him a different perspective and respect, his opinion is very valid here.

Modern Diesels are fine if you have the sort of motoring that suits them..in other words they are no longer the general purpose default choice for economic running, they need to be used in a certain way or they will play up....sounds like some prima donna throwing tantrums.

Not sure yet if we'll have another Diesel, and i've been running at least one since the early 80's, i would have no qualms about running a Toyota or Lexus hybrid, not so sure i'd be entrusting PSA for example with my hard earned in the hope they might be equally as durable, plus what happened to the once pretty Pugs, now as ugly as sin.

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

55mpg? was that brim to brim?

That's impressive

Well it was full when I took it for the day, I filled it when I brought it back and by my maths it did 55mpg, the computer said 57.3 so it was quite accurate. Most owners report 50-55mpg out of the Prius to be fair, even the very lowest I've encountered was 45mpg, I've rarely come across anybody who gets near the claimed 65 mind, but you can say that sort of thing about any car.

Agreed, i remember Jamie's short time with a Prius which he wrote about here, he didn't rate the thing prior to that as i recall, but his time with one i believe gave him a different perspective and respect, his opinion is very valid here.

I didn't rate it at all but I decided to give it a chance and it was nowhere near as bad as I was expecting. Its perfectly nippy around town, granted it feels strained at high speeds but it will do 85mph if you're willing to see your mpg fall. It is economical if you drive it economically, if you drive it like a lunatic it'll be like anything else. I would consider buying one because I like large automatic cars and one which will annoy the Chancellor and BP would be frankly excellent.

Do you own a Hybrid? - Chickenwire

Thunderbird, our 116i was an 06 petrol model, before the changes that improved matters in 56/07. As I stated our use is predominantly urban use with a monthly(ish) blitz down the A1 and it's there, in town, at average ~25mph for a couple of miles or so that we're really making the savings and where our Beemer would be (and was) burning petrol in stop-start traffic, we would be lucky to be getting ~38mpg out of that little so-and-so in those conditions.

We have made a choice that absolutely fits our use. PS You haven't stated whether you're in a diesel or petrol Bimmer. If diesel, would it really suit us? I believe the answer would be a resounding 'no'. As I stated in my post if you're doing mainly A road driving or anything other than urban (like wot we duz) then a diesel is probably the answer for the OP. You might need to do 192mpg in a hybrid and therefore it, quite possibly, wouldn't be the correct choice for you, eh?

For us, and I'm sorry to harp on here, but ~£45 to fill up (not brim to brim) and then to get 25-28 days motoring is, in my opinion, in these straitened times, utterly fab.

Do you own a Hybrid? - thunderbird

Yours was petrol and you say you got 38mpg out of it. There is no way you are getting 4 x that figure as you suggested in an earlier posting. Perhaps you are 55mpg which is about 1.5 times as much, god knows how you can possibly think you are getting 4 x as much.

You need to check your maths.

Do you own a Hybrid? - Chickenwire

And I think you need to be a little less confrontational. The vehicle has an EV mode which allows it to run, under 27MPH, for up to 2km. As I stated, the vast majority of our motoring is urban - stop start/ short journeys/ slow moving traffic. The hybrid has made compelling financial sense for us. A diesel would be madness and our last experience of petrol was thirsty work. The vast majority of our journeys are carried out at much less than 27MPH. Some journeys, as the vehicle is used to travel between work sites, are actually less than 2km.

We would fill up >3x month (approx every 8-12 days) a tank I believe to be larger than our 45L tanked Lexus (@ ~£75-£80 a pop), and we're filling this car up ~>1x month (25-28 days). Maybe my maths wasn't my strong point, and maybe I did get the MPG wrong, but my wallet isn't telling me any lies.

Edited by Chickenwire on 16/04/2012 at 16:56

Do you own a Hybrid? - thunderbird

And I think you need to be a little less confrontational. The vehicle has an EV mode which allows it to run, under 27MPH, for up to 2km. As I stated, the vast majority of our motoring is urban - stop start/ short journeys/ slow moving traffic. The hybrid has made compelling financial sense for us. A diesel would be madness and our last experience of petrol was thirsty work. The vast majority of our journeys are carried out at much less than 27MPH. Some journeys, as the vehicle is used to travel between work sites, are actually less than 2km.

We would fill up >3x month (approx every 8-12 days) a tank I believe to be larger than our 45L tanked Lexus (@ ~£75-£80 a pop), and we're filling this car up ~>1x month (25-28 days). Maybe my maths wasn't my strong point, and maybe I did get the MPG wrong, but my wallet isn't telling me any lies.

As I said you will no doubt be getting better mpg with the Prius than a 1 Series but not 4 times as much. Just be realistic and honest with your figures. 45 litres over 25 - 28 days instead of 55 litres (£75 devided by £1.35/litre) every 8 -12 days is approx 128 litres over 28 days, 2.85 times the amount used by your Prius. Thta is not realistic because your prius will not run on electrical powr for long, you cannot recharge a Prius.

Do you own a Hybrid? - unthrottled

It's staggering how many people cannot do a simple back-of-a-fag-packet calculation to arrive at actual mpg numbers. I had a conversation that went something like this:

Me: so what's the consumption like in your new car then?

Muppet: Well, I put fifty quid in and the last week and the gauge is still over half way

Me: So what's that in mpg?

Muppet: Well the range said I had 470 miles left, but then I booted it and it dropped to 227.

Me:Ok. So what was the old car like for economy?

Muppet: Well I used to put in forty quid and it would only last 2 weeks.

Me: How many miles was that?

Muppet: Well I used to get about 400 miles to a tank.

Me: How big was the tank?

Muppet: Er...

FFS.

Do you own a Hybrid? - barney100
I can't see how a hybrid makes financial sense. The purchase price seems so high and would surely wipe out any fuel savings. You could buy a 1.6 petrol hatchback for half the price of the hybrid leaving you £15k for fuel...how many miles would you get for that?
Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745
I can't see how a hybrid makes financial sense. The purchase price seems so high and would surely wipe out any fuel savings. You could buy a 1.6 petrol hatchback for half the price of the hybrid leaving you £15k for fuel...how many miles would you get for that?

They're not that expensive in truth. The new Prius in its top range guise can be had brand new on the road for less than £25,000. Or less than a Vauxhall Insignia CDTi with similar spec. A 4 year old Prius can be had for under £10,000

They do hold their prices reasonably well used and they are an investment. 70% of new Prius are company cars because they're by far the best value rep-car on BIK tax out there. Theres lots you could buy for less than a Hybrid but equally BMW sell plenty of 3 series for much more.

Do you own a Hybrid? - gordonbennet

Theres lots you could buy for less than a Hybrid

Not if you want a virtually silent engined refined family sized quality car with a silky smooth transmission that does 55mpg round town there isn't.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the real world figures for Prius Plug In are, can't be far off release now.

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

Not if you want a virtually silent engined refined family sized quality car with a silky smooth transmission that does 55mpg round town there isn't.

Well true. I think the point was you could buy a much cheaper car and even the extra petrol will wont cost as much as the Hybrid car does to buy. Personally I think there's more to it. The Prius is cheap to service and insure, we've already discussed how it doesnt have a conventional starter motor or alternator to go wrong, nor does it have DPF's or DMF's which plague diesel owners wallets and its a reliable car which costs £10 to tax.

Do you own a Hybrid? - unthrottled

it doesnt have a conventional starter motor or alternator to go wrong

No, it has a large and expensive electric motor/Li ion battery to go wrong instead! You're making some compelling arguments in favour of Guardianista mobiles-but that's not one of them! You're not having that one!

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

How many failures have been reported with the Hybrid drive system of Toyota?

Do you own a Hybrid? - Avant

The Prius consistently does very well in the customer satisfaction surveys, the latest in last week's Auto Express. This is no doubt because Toyota test their components thoroughly before putting them on sale, despite their complexity. It'll be interesting to see how reliable the new Peugeot / Citreoen hybrids turn out to be.

Do you own a Hybrid? - unthrottled

Apart from a Ford Zetec, I've never directly known of anyone suffer starter motor failure in a modern car. Same applies to alternators. Lead acid batteries should last 10 years or more and can be picked up for a tenner at a scrappy. can you say the same about Li-ion batteries?

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

My mother's Mondeo had an expensive alternator failure and I've known two people have starter motors go. One on a Vauxhall Astra and one on a VW something or other.

Do you own a Hybrid? - unthrottled

I think it's indicative of long term durability of Fords going downhill.

Everyone I know with a Ford has had non-wear parts brake-and these cars were well under ten years old. If a part doesn't contribute to fuel economy, power and it can't be seen, it'll be el cheapo.

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

Ford's are superb. You're just a biased GM fanboy :P

That's all I've got on that one.

Do you own a Hybrid? - unthrottled

GM euthanased Saab. For that we can all be eternally grateful.

Joking aside, I'm always happy to bang the drum for GM.

Do you own a Hybrid? - jamie745

Only GM car I've ever considered buying was a Vauxhall Omega. Mind you I'm a bit confused with Ford's offerings recently. I mean the B-Max? What the..

Do you own a Hybrid? - CJay{P}

Never owned a Prius, but I have been in a couple of taxis in Vancouver that had well in excess of 500,000km.

Do you own a Hybrid? - puckdrop

Hi, I'm a long-term lurker on here, finally broken silence :-)

In September last year, I was made redundant, and was lucky enough to get a job more or less straight away. So, as a treat ( subjective, my opinion, please respect that !! ), I bought myself an 07 Prius T-Spirit all specced up. It's the "old" 1.5 version.

I did consider diesel, being a general diesel head.. ( pug 1.5 / 1.9 / 2.1 engines, with 2.0 HDI in the family too ), but considered all the things that could go wrong with big money ( yeah.. and bought a hybrid.. I know ).. I know the 1.8 Prius is different, but when you look at the 1.5, it's simply a Yaris engine, on the Atkinson cycle rather than otto, with a hybrid bolted onto the side.. all the normal engine service bits are simply "yaris".

Previously I had an R-Reg Vectra 2.0DTI estate, and have owned a mix of mainly diesel cars but a couple of petrol ones too.

Additionally, in my last job, I got to drive a variety of bland (subjective) hire cars, as well as the occasional Audi A4 S-Line TDI and BMW 520d.

Without doubt, this is the best "personal" car I've had. Sure, it's not perfect, drives like a barge, is lacking a little power at the top end, but the overall package is great.

I'm consistently getting a measured 59-60mpg (MFD says 62) on brim-brim, usually putting about 43-44 litres in at each fill of the 45L tank. Ambient temperature and wind direction obviously play a part.. warm = good. Headwind = ok, tailwind = better.

My driving style depends.. On A-roads I'll tootle along with the traffic, anticipating what's happening up ahead so I don't need to brake and lose momentum. Sometimes I'll do the traffic light GP, which is fun as long as the road is dry ! On Motorways, I'll usually do somewhere between 60 and 80 depending on the conditions and whether I'm in a rush. In town.. well, what can you do lol. There's a stretch of the A60 near me where I can do just over two miles with the MFD maxed out at 99mpg instant, yet the engine is on.. purely because the engine is providing only the power needed to move the car.. it's not fixed at xx rpm for xx speed which it would be with a manual gearbox.

My daily commute is 14 miles each way, a mix of urban and country, where I can be doing 50-60 for about 5 of the miles, mixed with 0-40 areas for the rest.

The car had 90,000 (miles) on the clock when I bought it, it's now got 104,000. To date it has cost me ... 1 x tyre and 1L of 10w30 semi-synth oil. The service history receipts show nothing other than service items and a 12v battery - a known weakness ( no cambelt, clutch, DMF, DPF etc.. ) It's about due for a service which will be around £150.

As far as I can tell from the history and looks.. it's on it's original 4x disc / pad combination, with plenty of life in all of them.

People often say how quiet it is when cruising, which it is.. it's just when you boot it that the "cvt" sticks the revs up and off you go. They also comment that the mpg must be really bad around town... fundamentally missing the point of the hybrid - the mpg actually goes up in town driving IF you change your driving habits.. (even so, it's still very impressive if you drive it like an oaf ).

Getting the economy isn't difficult, if you think about what you're doing a little more.. to be honest, I've always tried to get the best economy from various cars, notably the Audi above I got 62mpg indicated (not brim) from Thetford to Nottingham using the A17 and A52 - that was driving like a grandad though.. the usual keeper averaged about 40mpg on the same trip.

Equally impressive was a hire car - a Kia Ceed 3, which was the diesel with an auto.. again, Thetford to Nottingham I got 50mpg (brim) from it. That wasn't too much of a grandad trip either.

Anyway, sorry for the disjointed ramblings, hope some of it is useful.. again, remember, only my opinion, and my subjective thoughts.. you'll noticed I haven't done any "car bashing".. please don't start on me ;-)

Do you own a Hybrid? - gordonbennet

Good post Puckdrop and welcome.

Very few hybrid owners report on their real experiences here, don't let this be you're only post will you.

There's a good few here, i'm one and i believe Madf is another who are seriously considering going Toyota hybrid in due course when our present well cared for cars eventually peg out, so the more info the better please..