Right, I'm totally bored with my Jan2001 Honda Accord SE Exec 2.0 VTEC - it's a very nice car and all but it bores the pants off me.
It's too big, too soft, too cosy and too much like the sort of car my in-laws should have (whenever I give them a ride anywhere they always say "Ohhhh this is a lovely car, we should get one like this").
Trade-in value is £8875 to £9400 depending on which list you look at, I want to swap it for a car which is smaller, more exciting, and has a bit more pazazz - but I don't want to have to cough up more than £2500 in the process, which gives me a ceiling of around £11500, maybe £12000 tops.
Also, a diesel is essential as I do high mileage, I want a chunk of manufacturer's warranty left and I want insurance at group 11 or less (the Accord costs me £850 fully comp and that's group 11 - that'll teach me for being 28 years old with only 2 years no claims).
Fairly tight criteria and I don't see too many options around, best I've found is a 6 month old Ibiza Sport TDi 130bhp, metallic grey, £13850 new, dealer is after £11000 for it, it's only done about 4000 miles. 2 1/2 years warranty left.
He reckons he can do about £9250 for my Accord on trade-in, leaving me to find £1750.
Insurance is only group 7, which is a definite bonus.
So then, is it a good motor? I've read around a bit and it seems well regarded, same engine that VW use in the Golf TDi 130bhp by all accounts, and even Audi use it in the A4/A6?
I want the economy of a diesel, and looking at the figures it does seem to have a bit of poke too. It'll only be me in there 90% of the time, so 3-door isn't a problem.
Is it a bit of a girly car? It seems a bit hairdressery to me, can't say I've noticed too many around and/or noticed who tends to drive them.
I haven't actually seen it yet, it's due in in the next week or so and I'll take it for a test drive, the basic Ibiza looks very dull, does the Sport look a lot better?
Ultimately, I'm after something quick, reliable, fun to drive, not too expensive on routine servicing, economical, well built and well equipped.
Is this car a good choice or could I do better? I don't want to do what I did with the Accord and buy a car which, ultimately, I don't really like.
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Diesel Car mag has one on long term test, and are well impressed.
It seems to be quite the opposite of your present car with hard suspension, sports seats, and plenty of urge without having to go over 3,500rpm. In the latter respect, if your vtec is quite revvy, you may need to alter your driving style to suit the low down grunt of the Seat engine.
As for covering high mileage, you will have to test drive it to see what you think of the noise generated by the engine/road etc.
Group 7 ins sounds really good, but telephone a couple of insurers to double check, as I believe the ins group for the equivalent Golf has gone up about four groups.(10-14)
I sit waiting with envy to see how you get on!
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Thanks for the answers to date.
My father-in-law drives a Golf GT-TDi-130, generally speaking I like it in handling and ride terms, but I don't care for the rather bland yet severe styling, and the interior looks like a funeral director decided to see how much boring black it was possible to fit in one car. Engine wise it does sound a bit dieselesque, especially when cold, but when you're inside it purrs along nicely and has plenty of oomph.
It's certainly an engine I could happily live with in a smaller, nicer looking car such as the Ibiza.
The mileage I do isn't exactly typical - I live on the Isle Of Man and my journey to work is 16 miles, 13 of those over the unrestricted mountain course from Ramsey to Douglas (no speed limit :)), and then it's the same thing back again. My mileage when at work is around and about the island, very little driving in town or stuck in traffic, most of it on relatively quiet open roads - therefore a firm, stiff ride ride will suit me well.
The Accord is fairly quick, but it only pulls from 4500rpm to 6300rpm thanks to the fancy VTEC thing, and it's far too gooey in the corners, even though it does hold the road well (albeit with more tyre squeal than I'd like). It'll be quite a change driving a diesel with all its grunt low down.
Insurance anywhere up to Group 11 will be fine, so if it has changed from Group 7 that's not an issue, as long as it doesn't cost me any more than I'm paying now.
I'll give the Ibiza a proper test drive before I decide, including taking it up onto the mountain, I'm not going to rush into a decision this time around - but having had a read around it does seem to be a pretty nifty little motor, and I can't see myself doing much better in the £11000 to £12000 bracker.
Cheers for the replies, any more comments appreciated.
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That 130pd engine should be good for overtaking manovures up over the mountain!
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I wanted a smallish sporty diesel hatch and looked hard for 6 months. I found that there was no car that I really liked and wanted to pay big money for so I bought a 110 hdi xsara. I drove 4 different Ibiza 130 and found two to be very harsh with loads of rattles. They also feel very cramped inside. But as for affordable sporty diesel they are as good as it gets.(I hate the dash of the focus)
The sort of price you are being asked for a second hand car would easily buy a new import. Take a weekend break in Ireland and visit a few Seat dealers and buy it directly yourself. Maybe consider an imported Leon 150.
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just one point an ex-demonstrator probably has been thrashed from cold for nearlt all of its miles
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just one point an ex-demonstrator probably has been thrashed from cold for nearlt all of its miles
It's not ex-demo, it's been privately owned by a couple who change their cars every six months - nice if you can afford it I suppose, then again, that's the Isle Of Man for you, lots of people with lots of cash (except me).
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I wanted a smallish sporty diesel hatch and looked hard for 6 months. I found that there was no car that I really liked and wanted to pay big money for so I bought a 110 hdi xsara. I drove 4 different Ibiza 130 and found two to be very harsh with loads of rattles. They also feel very cramped inside. But as for affordable sporty diesel they are as good as it gets.(I hate the dash of the focus) The sort of price you are being asked for a second hand car would easily buy a new import. Take a weekend break in Ireland and visit a few Seat dealers and buy it directly yourself. Maybe consider an imported Leon 150.
Thanks for the pointers, I'm certainly going to take it for a proper test drive before I part with my Accord (which is, when all is said and done, a very well built and competent motor), but at the end of the day I'd like to make a move to diesel, petrol costs are just silly (I use £40 per week, and the Accord returns less than 30 to the gallon, sub-25 if it's pushed in the high rev ranges), add in IOM fuel prices (80.9p for unleaded) and to pay through the nose to drive a car I don't even particularly like is crackers.
At the same time, I do want a car with a bit of poke (to get past all the b***** grannies on the mountain in their Daihatsu Moritzs with an apparent top speed of 35mph) and preferably a touch of style about it.
Imports aren't really an option, I can't be without a car and I'd need to sell the Accord first, *then* get all the wheels in motion to get the import sorted, far too long-winded - and even if there was a way around it (reserving an import with a deposit for example) it's not a road I'm keen to go down. More fool me perhaps, but I want the proper warranty and dealer back up.
Are there any other diesel cars that compare to the Ibiza? From the research I've done, it pretty much stands alone in terms of price, performance and equipment.
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Ooohh that's a harsh "naughty word" censor - you can say the "b word" on daytime TV these days.
Still, our delicate sensibilities must be protected.
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I don't know how easy they're going to be to get hold of, but you could get a brand new Focus tdci Zetec on an import from Motorpoint for under £12,000. It's not *quite* as fast as the Ibiza but it is more practical and handles better too. Of course, they wouldn't be so generous with their trade in and your deal on the Ibiza does sound more than fair to me, given that cars with that spec and engine aren't exactly plentiful.
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Alex,
If I have my arithmetic correct - £40 a week, 80.9p unleaded and sub 30mpg - you do less than 15K mile annually.
I would suggest that the economy advantages of diesel are marginal on that mileage, particularly as performance appears to be high on your list of priorities.
An 1800/2000 Golf size hatchback with a petrol engine would have better performance and be cheaper to buy. Driven with gusto you would get say 35mpg from petrol and 45mpg from diesel. Assuming that diesel is a similar price in IOM, that means a saving on fuel of approx £350 pa - not a huge sum in the overall running costs of a car in the £12,000 bracket.
C
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>>An 1800/2000 Golf size hatchback with a petrol engine would have better performance and be cheaper to buy.
Thats not really true. I've just changed from an A4 1.8t to a Seat Leon tdi and now the Seat has run in the performance of the two are about the same with the Seat being the more drivable of the two. Our 1.8 petrol Focus feels underpowered in comparison to the Leon. The only advantage I've lost by switching away from the Audi is over 100mph, something which isn't too important these days.
Thing is modern diesels are like having you cake and eating it. Better performance and better economy. The Ibiza should be even better in this respect.
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Is your Leon an S or SE? I've had my SE above 115 mph with 3 adults on board and plenty more power in reserve. That was when I'd had it for just 3k miles and got a bit carried away for the first time after the restraint of running it in. I didn't try to go any higher because I hadn't realised it would go this fast so soon and thought it might be time to drop back ;) Can't wait for the 130 bhp version with the new look.
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>>>Is your Leon an S or SE?
It's an SE. It seems to be good above 100 but the Audi was very good, if you see what I mean. I've only just passed the 1000 mile mark so haven't had a chance to really go for it.
In response to peoples worries about the noise I have a couple of observations.
1. The car is now comparable to our focus when on the move (although louder at tickover). It also seems to be getting smoother by the day.
2. The engine pulls strongley at low revs so you get used to wafting past other cars without stressing the engine. This makes the whole driving experience very relaxing.
With respect to the Ibiza if you take a look at the Tdi forums www.seatcupra.net/forums then you'll see that these are now dominated by the Ibiza.
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Just some points to consider.
1/At £11000 the Ibiza is not a cheap car, nor is the trade in for the Accord generous, in short not really a good deal.
2/ If you spend a lot of time in stationary traffic as i have today, a ten minute journey turned into 1 hour due to Xmas shoppers, then you may be less than happy with the clattery tickover of the 130 compared to the near silent Accord.
3/ Yes the diesel economy is excellent but you will pay more to purchase one in the first place. Calculations need to be done to ensure a saving.
4/I was woke up from my beauty sleep yesterday by what sounded like the dustbin lorry only to look out the window to see the back of the daughters merk A190 diesel leaving the drive. No use to a shift worker.
5/ The Accord as with most cars has gained both size and weight.The BMW 3 series recently come out last in a group test of four due to its lack of rear leg room, what rubbish! but unfortunately no doubt the next 3 series will be longer heavier.
In short down sizing to a smaller petrol car will give more performance and economy. Plenty of petrol cars give 40+ mpg.
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1/At £11000 the Ibiza is not a cheap car, nor is the trade in for the Accord generous, in short not really a good deal.
11 grand for a six month old Ibiza 130 Sport seems about right from the browsing around I've done, although I guess you're saying that 11 grand is just too much to pay for that car full stop?
As for the Accord trade in, Glass' has it at £8875, Parkers at £9400, so £9500 seems fair on that basis?
I've heard Dec/Jan are quite months for dealers and maybe I could drive a harder bargain?
2/ If you spend a lot of time in stationary traffic as i have today, a ten minute journey turned into 1 hour due to Xmas shoppers, then you may be less than happy with the clattery tickover of the 130 compared to the near silent Accord.
In all fairness to the Accord it is a splendidly built and comfortable car, it'll happily cruise at 100mph over the mountain mile (part of the TT course) and it's still as quiet as a gentle breeze.
Then again, the 25-30mpg I get out of it is starting to irritate me.
3/ Yes the diesel economy is excellent but you will pay more to purchase one in the first place. Calculations need to be done to ensure a saving.
Fair point, someone else on this thread has said I'd only be looking at £350 per annum, then again, that's better than a slap in the face.....
4/I was woke up from my beauty sleep yesterday by what sounded like the dustbin lorry only to look out the window to see the back of the daughters merk A190 diesel leaving the drive. No use to a shift worker.
Diesels are definitely noisy, my father-in-laws Golf GT-TDi 130 sounds clattery, especially when cold, but once you're inside it's sweet as you like. As for those outside the car, if you've got double glazing you're OK :)
5/ The Accord as with most cars has gained both size and weight.The BMW 3 series recently come out last in a group test of four due to its lack of rear leg room, what rubbish! but unfortunately no doubt the next 3 series will be longer heavier. In short down sizing to a smaller petrol car will give more performance and economy. Plenty of petrol cars give 40+ mpg.
The All New 2003 Accord is out soon, won't do the value of mine any good, maybe another good reason to get rid now?
I'm open to suggestions, for my £12000 budget and criteria as detailed above (less the diesel part) - what would you suggest?
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Relaxed driving experience - a euphemism for downright slow? If the number of revs the engine is doing has an effect on your state of relaxation then see a shrink.
I go to work at 5:30 most days and (apprantly) my neighbours are all praying I go back to a petrol engined car - I have a Focus TDCi. You may not be able to hear the awful Golf engine inside the car (but I doubt that very much) but it is downright antisocial if you have neighbours.
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>>>my neighbours are all praying I go back to a petrol engined car.
Thankfully the people three doors up the road have two transit vans. I will always look like a saint by comparison.
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I too am looking at gtting the new Ibiza 130 TDI. I do highish mileage, about 25-30k per year. I currently have an Audi 2.4 V6 and get about 27Mpg. So I guess I would save about £2500 per anum, then there are all the other running costs, they must be cheaper
What are most peoples opinion on the Ibiza?, they seem to be fairly popular, I have contacted a few, a lot of importers and they all say the delivery time is about 12-16 weeks, a few even sai 30-35 weeks, but at a 25% saving, I guess it will be worth the wait.
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I have owned my Ibiza TDi 130 for about 4 months now and covered around 6,000 miles in it. I have had a couple of niggly problems with it that are being fixed under warrenty (new drivers door mirror unit needed due to defective electric motor, rattling tail gate and vibration coming from gear leaver when in 4th sometimes. These (and a couple of other things are being fixed by the dealer). Not a good start, but dont let that deter your from the car. I have owned a few quick cars in my time (and some more sluggish ones too) - lastly being a 306 TD, but the Ibiza gives a nice mix of diesel pull and general low down quick car feel. Its a firm ride, but handles well (due to its quite high ride height it absorbes pot holes well) but is very agile round the twisty stuff. The other great benefit is that it gives good mpg. Out of a tank of fuel (which is a bit smaller than I am used to) I average just under 50 mpg. This includes motorway and rush hour driving - and I dont drive it too lightly either.
I could not believe the coments about it being noisy - it is a diesel but its not noisy, and feels more like a sporty petrol when driven, plus with bags or torque driving it is very easy.
Overall I would say its a good car, and to be honest why bother buying a petrol car of similar speed? The diesel seems to make the sensible option, and this one has a good standard spec list. It was the only diesel that I really considered - all others in a similar class were either slower or less well equipped. Once driven properly I think it beats its rivals - easily.
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sorry, but is this ibiza your after the new model or the old model.
if its the new model then why not have a change of car cos it looks the part too.
if the old model i wouldn't bother, cos that shape is really from 96'
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I've been driving my imported Ibiza TDi 130 for 2 or 3 weeks now and am really impressed with it.
The engine really isn't noisy at all - OK it's not the quietest but it's by no means the noisiest diesel around. From inside, it's really quiet and smooth at idle (esp compared to my Rover 220 SDi I had), and it's quiet while cruising thanks to the high gearing.
Economy is very good - mine was chipped from new (around 160bhp) but I'm still averaging around 50mpg, others have said this will improve further as the engine beds in, I've only done about 1000 miles so far.
On gentler runs (sat in convoys of traffic) I have averaged over 60mpg on several occasions.
The performance is fantastic, the amount of low-down grunt is phenomenal - standard models quote 229lb/ft torque at about 1900rpm. In gear acceleration is stunning, making overtaking very easy and safe.
Downsides ? Well some bits of trim, like the glovebox are a bit flimsy - but in general it's good.
The ride is hard, and there's a lot of tyre noise (205/45/16) - but I guess this goes with the territory. Payback is sharp handling, and combined with the performance it's easily the most fun car I've driven.
There's a fair bit of standard kit on this model - climate control, CD player, sports seats, leccy windows, leccy/heated mirrors etc etc - though in UK you can't get any extra options other than metallic paint and satnav. Import a UK-spec car from Europe though (got mine from Holland) and there's plenty of extras to be had - ESP, Xenon lights, leather, leccy sunroof, rain sensor pack, power upgrade, etc etc. By adding a few of these you can make it up to the UK price too ;-)
Importing gets you a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty, while in UK the dealer adds a third year limited to 60k miles. If you're covering a high mileage like me, the third year is of no use anyway.
One option for those who want the performance, but with a slightly more comfy ride would be to buy the TDI 100 and get it chipped. That will give the same level of performance but with a little more comfort - but with slightly different trim/equipment level too.
An alternative to getting it chipped by Seat (Seat UK don't offer a chipped option) is to get it done over here. A popular tuning company is Revo - who will reprogram the ECU to give 180bhp/300lbft. It's all done electronically via the diagnostic port, and they also sell a tool which allows you to switch back to standard tune for servicing/warranty visits etc. Lots of users on the forums (details below) have this mod and covered plenty of miles without any problems whatsoever.
If you want more info, look at the forums on www.seatcupra.net/forums. The TDI forum is now dominated by Ibiza TDI 130 owners, and there's also an Imports forum which is full of useful info and gave me the confidence to buy direct from a Dutch dealer (really was easy!).
Hope this is of help to anyone considering this car.
mb
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re: noisy VW TDI engines.
Having had a TDI powered car for 10 years i can assure you that each car is different in terms of noise. My current Seat is a lot quieter than previous Golf with same engine. Go for the Ibiza. Ignore the 'noisy diesel' lot. It is a great car and from my experience, Seat dealers are as helpful and efficient as VW dealers are not.
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I test drove one recently whilst looking for cars for my wife.
I was impressed.
Impressed enough to consider it as the replacement for the Puma when that reaches retirement (now that Ford have stopped building them)
Good prices new in Ireland.
Rob P
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the vw 130 pd tdi is a fantastic engine fast and frugal. ive owned a golf with this engine for about 18months without any problems. 130mph top speed and 60mpg hard to beat!
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the vw 130 pd tdi is a fantastic engine fast and frugal. ive owned a golf with this engine for about 18months without any problems. 130mph top speed and 60mpg hard to beat!
If you think it's good as standard, try getting it chipped ;-)))
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"If you think it's good as standard, try getting it chipped ;-)))"
Isn't that a tad illogical?
Surely if you think it is good as standard there is no reason for getting it chipped?
Only if you perceive some shortcoming will there be any motivation to fiddle around, possibly invalidating both your warranty and your insurance?
Rob
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Surely if you think it is good as standard there is no reason for getting it chipped?
It IS a very good car as standard; but when I ordered it I got the option of a power upgrade, so I thought I might as well take advantage.
...possibly invalidating both your warranty and your insurance?
Warranty intact (chip done via Seat), Insurance OK (pay £480 yr for 25000 miles, chip declared), economy averages around 50-55mpg - same as for the standard car.
It's an awesome car - for once I can have the performance I've always wanted but still get over 50mpg (so I can afford to fuel it for 25000 miles/yr).
Now the engine's loosening up a bit more, the power is increasing noticeably - it's now much easier to provoke the traction control in 2nd gear...
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Does anyone know when the new dash came out on the Ibiza? Just been to look at one today and it looks soooo much better than the older version (IMHO)!
Muddyboots - How much did you end up paying for your 130? Where?
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Hi Tim
The new Ibiza came out early last year.
I imported mine from a dealer in Holland, paid roughly same cost as buying over here, but for the same money got ESP, Xenons, Rain sensor pack (wipers & dimming mirror) and the power upgrade - none of which are available in the UK.
I reckon if they were available in UK, you'd be talking a couple of grand for the options, so that's roughly what I saved.
The exchange rate has taken a dive recently, so savings aren't what they were, although I expect you could still save a bit - and of course you can get all those extra goodies not available in the UK.
If you goto www.seatcupra.net/forums, have a search through my posts (username: muddyboots) in the TDI and Import forums and you'll find more info and pictures !
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Muddyboots,
Realise that the new Ibiza came out last year but they've just redone the dash very recently...colleagues TDI SE version has the old dash. Just a bit cautious that if/when I purchase an import there might be little way of telling if I'm buying older stock with the older dash...
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I didn't realise they'd changed the dash.
Mine looks like this: www.muddyboots.f9.co.uk/car/08_ibiza_inside.jpg
Has it changed since mine ?
If you import a UK-spec car direct from a foreign dealer, you will most likely have to wait for it to be built at the factory, and so you'll get whatever the latest spec is.
I don't think many foreign dealers will keep many RHD TDI 130s in stock - they buy to order from the factory when a customer wants one. Otherwise they could end up with cars they can't sell in their country - that's why they also ask for a fairly hefty deposit (I paid 20%) so you don't back out and leave them with an unsellable car.
Is your colleagues car an import ? I have a feeling there was an option in some foreign markets for a "soft dash" or something odd like that, but I've never seen one. I haven't heard about a new dash design in the SC forums I mentioned previously.
Lee
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