And I understand manufacturer fit systems are virtually impossible to repair.

This has amused me too. Of course, even the cheapest smart phone has rendered these built-in carbuncles redundant, just as earlier mobiles rendered the built-in car phone redundant.

Now the owner is stuck with a useless, and chintzy LCD screen where the HVAC controls should be.

Magpie syndrome will always drive some people to fill their cabins with clutter in the pursuit of luxury. But the best cabins are simple and uncluttered; not having what you don't need is just as important as having what you want.

RT - it's like a lot of things in life - if you have never had it you don't miss it. My X type had it in built as standard and I found it a very good system. I don't miss it that much now the car has gone, but the biggest bonus for me was it was always with me and no setting up required - turn car on and it's working.

Most of my trips are within a 20-30 mile radius of home and I go to the same places often so no need for a satnav. Due to this the £90 Garmin I bought when I swapped my car spends more time on the bookshelf than it does in the car. Where having it available all the time comes into its own is when you are aware of a hold up and need to find an alternative route. Turn satnav on and use it. In car systems also have much larger screens so you can get more streets on the map, very handy when "rat running" to avoid queues.

In car systems also don't stop working when they lose satelite reception - handy in built up areas.

That said, if it wasn't standard I wouldn't tick the option box!

<<Just buy an android phone, sat nav better than old Tom Tom or Garmin I had.>>

Don`t you believe it! I just got lost in Manchester today relying on an android phone. It came up with "signal lost,follow the route".Luckily I had my trusty TT in the car,and after about 20miles of wasted petrol found the place I was going to. I do agree about the maping being superior though.

unthrottled, 'But the best cabins are simple and uncluttered; not having what you don't need is just as important as having what you want.'

That's true. Cars are littered with buttons helping distract the driver from the road. No wonder cars now have so many anti-kill yourself devices. Two of the best, simple, uncluttered dashboards, are the Audi A6 from 1998-2004 and W124 Mercedes.

Fabia VRS (old model) had a wonderfully simple (if bland) dashboard. As did the old Focus ST. Didn't need any junk to distract you from enjoying the power.

The fighter plane cockpit style dash of the Saab 9-3 otoh...ugh! ;-)

Skoda Fabia dashboard - most bland, but effective.

Unthrottled, I'm so pleased you mentioned Saab. ;) The Saab 9-3 is a masterclass in dash design. I love the night panel.

True, but they're not driving it. I remember BL thought the Marina driver wasn't the one who operated the radio, so angled it away to the passenger.

Actually today most centre consoles are angled to the passenger because manufacturers can't be bothered to change for the rhd market! Lazy bleepers!

BTW I was thinking of the pre-2002 Saab 9-3. You're correct about the one afterwards.

Edited by Trilogy on 25/01/2012 at 14:05

My S-Type has a Sat Nav and seeing as i get lost in a telephone box i find it very useful!

No one has ever smashed a driver's window to yank out a built in Sat Nav, have they ?

You cannot forget to hide , install or charge it

It is always there to help on even short journeys

It is superior to a £99 Garmin

<cough> Paper map!!!!

HI CHAPS. just a quick thank-you. after saying about my father in laws subaru legacy with its £400 map update.

a link was posted on this thread....i told my FIL about it...and he bought a copy yesterday...and it arrived today....he said...."i took a risk and bought that cheap map update, and it works a treat"

so thanks again....its saved him hundreds......

"My Beemer has i-Drive, so navigation, communication, entertainment and some vehicle functions are all take care of on the one screen. The other benefit is that without it, the dashboard is just one boring featureless plank right across the car".

I was looking at the new 5 series does this have full post code input in the UK one of my colleagues has a two year old 525d estate and the sat nav is not very good.

So the moral is not to rely blindly on these electronic toys but be aware of your journey and where you are going.

...even TomToms etc is that they force you to look away from the road ahead.

You mount the Tom Tom on the windscreen. Built in Navs sit where the HVAC controls should be. Which system takes your eyes further away from the road...?

Tom tom everytime. The screens so small

And watching newsnight on a 37" plasma makes current affairs so much more real than a 20" cathode ray tube.

My eyesight is not good and I don't find the screen size a problem. How do you manage to drive?!