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MG6 - Hypocrisy - Trilogy

Interesting to note alot of people cite the MG6's sales failure as being down to a lack of a diesel model. Yet many, no forums mentioned, recommend people don't buy a diesel because of all the likely, modern diesel, related problems.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - Collos25

But the petrol engine is poor and the build quality second to a 1980,s Skoda.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

Triogy-look at sales figures.

DPF concerns might might dissuade some peole from buying diesels, but 50% of all new car sales are diesel. In the larger segment, the proportion is more like 60-70%.

Lack of a diesel almost wiped Subaru out of Europe. Rocking up without a diesel is, with apologies to Geoffrey Howe:" rather like sending your opening batsmen to the crease only for them to find the moment that the first balls are bowled that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain."

MG6 - Hypocrisy - Trilogy

Unthrottled, http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=94311

I don't think MG6 sales have been recorded. It's a little difficult when theyre all registered by dealers. :)

MG6 - Hypocrisy - RT
Lack of a diesel almost wiped Subaru out of Europe.

And it's still very much a case of too little, too late - a single 2.0D 150bhp diesel only available with manual transmission - every other manufacturer must be laughing at Subaru's lack of committment to diesels.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - TeeCee

But the petrol engine is poor.....

The cylinder barrel and block in the "N" series are off the old "K" series. The big change is a new head, which is what really needed doing to the "K" to solve the overheating / Head Gasket issues, which were due to insufficient coolant capacity in the head. As MG/Rover were strapped for cash, they fiddled round the edges with different gaskets for years rather than bite the bullet on this one.

Details of the sorry mess lovingly documented here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rover-K-16v-Engine-1989-2005/dp/1841556882/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327394569&sr=1-1

I'd have thought it should be OK, unless you have personal experience to the contrary.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - ChannelZ

But the petrol engine is poor.....

The cylinder barrel and block in the "N" series are off the old "K" series. The big change is a new head, which is what really needed doing to the "K" to solve the overheating / Head Gasket issues, which were due to insufficient coolant capacity in the head. As MG/Rover were strapped for cash, they fiddled round the edges with different gaskets for years rather than bite the bullet on this one.

Details of the sorry mess lovingly documented here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rover-K-16v-Engine-1989-2005/dp/1841556882/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327394569&sr=1-1

I'd have thought it should be OK, unless you have personal experience to the contrary.

There's three issues with the N series.

1. Fuel economy is poor, due to the old design of the engine (no direct injection, no VVT, etc)

2. CO2 emissions are crippling - high RFL and BIK. No WAY are MG going to sell any to fleets. Even rental fleets seem to be giving it a wide berth.

3. It's pretty lame output figures for a 1.8 turbo.

That engine, if they had bothered could have been doing 200hp with over 40mpg and sub 150 CO2s. BMW can manage better fuel economy, better output, and better emissions with a NA engine, and have been doing so for years.

The other "anecdotal" issue is someone in the press mentioned the N series was a tarted up K series, and every man and his dog has had, or knows of someone who's had a K series eat it's head gasket and implode. That's a difficult problem to shake.

As for the MG6 itself, ignoring the engine, sitting in one reminds me very much of a mid-80s Renault. Lots of shiny plastic and illegible lights, and wobbly buttons in the wrong place. Yes, it might drive like a Ferrari, but if the door card falls off within 6 months, the radio button falls inside the dash after a year, and the a*** falls out of the seat in 18 months, people won't buy them.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - mrnikko

Reading Safety Fast the MG Car Clubs magazine I think the MG6 will have a diesel engine option in the next few months certinaly by late summer.Putting buyers off will be lack of dealers my nearest dealer will be over 100 miles away in Newcastle as an example.

Various people in both the MG Car Club and MG Owners Club have tested the car and rate it as quite a good package although I guess these testers are kind of converted to the M G cause.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

I don't see the point in bringing out the bread and butter engine later. Why not just delay launch until the engine is ready? The problem with drip feeding new engines/styles in as that the public lose interest in the car.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

Jaguar were also very late to introduce a diesel although you have to applaud them for their reluctance to use tractor engines until it was absolutely neccessary.

The MG6 doesnt sell because its a poor car which almost nobody has ever heard of.

I mentioned the MG6 to someone the other day and i asked if they'd want to buy a car with an MG badge, made at Longbridge which is essentially a Chinese car which is itself modelled on a 15 year old Rover design (the 75) and the overwhelming response was predictable.

In fact, im struggling to think of anything worse than that!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

although you have to applaud them for their reluctance to use tractor engines until it was absolutely neccessary.

Not really! Mercedes were using diesels in the 70s, BMW started in the early 80s. It didn't damage their prestige. Diesel has saved the luxury car. What would you rather have: an insipid 4 pot petrol or a nice 6 pot diesel? At idle, BMW's 6 pot derv engine sounds like the grand old 'big six' petrol-a wonderful sound!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

Not really! Mercedes were using diesels in the 70s, BMW started in the early 80s. It didn't damage their prestige.

Because nobody actually bought them.

What would you rather have: an insipid 4 pot petrol or a nice 6 pot diesel?

A 6 cylinder petrol. The 4.4litre petrol V8 made by BMW is also terrific.

Edited by jamie745 on 24/01/2012 at 01:04

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

Because nobody actually bought them. [diesels]

A lot more people bought them than the 4.4V8! Jaguar's 3.0 diesel is a peach. I can understand your aversion to derv though Jamie, I feel the same way about hybrid-petrol-CVT arrangements. Doesn't matter what you do with them-I'd rather walk!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

I can understand putting a diesel in a typical family car or a little car to make it cheap to run, the same can go for the Hybrid thing you mention. But if you can afford an expensive luxury car then you can also afford some petrol.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - dieseldogg

But a fiscally tight Scots bred Co. Antrim wannabee farmer would like

(i) Comfort & Space

(ii) Luxery & gizmos

(iii) BUT with outstanding fuel economy & longevity.

Therefore diesel, diesel,diesel, DIESEL

Simples!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - Trilogy

jamie, 'But if you can afford an expensive luxury car then you can also afford some petrol.'

Indeed, but most well off people are tight bleeps, that's why they are well off, hence diesel luxury cars. A few years ago the richest guy in our village bought a diesel S-class. He had the badges gold plated!!

BTW, if you buy a pre-common rail diesel, you can end up with a car that will do over 200, or even 300 miles, on every £6.30 of fuel you put in.

Edited by Trilogy on 24/01/2012 at 08:44

MG6 - Hypocrisy - RT

I can understand putting a diesel in a typical family car or a little car to make it cheap to run, the same can go for the Hybrid thing you mention. But if you can afford an expensive luxury car then you can also afford some petrol.

But even some wealthy people are concerned about their image and don't like being branded "gas-guzzlers" - but they may well also have a petrol gas-guzzler to use at the weekends!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - Chips with everything

@jamie745 : Maybe we just like the torque and not being on first name terms with the local forecourt attendants? ;D

Edited by Chips with everything on 24/01/2012 at 11:26

MG6 - Hypocrisy - dieseldogg

BTW, if you buy a pre-common rail diesel, you can end up with a car that will do over 200, or even 300 miles, on every £6.30 of fuel you put in.

Edited by Trilogy on 24/01/2012 at 08:44

Can I have one of those as Quoted Above thereTrilogy?

200/300 mpg

thats my kinda motoring.

Marcus

Ps

as also mentioned somewhere above, my right foot prefers the effortless low rev torque of a diesel, a straight 6 or V8 would be nicer, but I's is too "fiscally prudent"

Perhaps when i retire I shall treat myself to sommat extravagent, like a VW toerag/ "G" Wagen/ Land Cruiser amazon.

jist for the weekends

Edited by dieseldogg on 24/01/2012 at 11:45

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

BIK muddies the waters considerably.

But you're right, anyone contemplating spending £30K+ on a new car shouldn't be remotely concerned about the cost of filling up. It's like a basic acid test of whether you can afford the car!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - TeeCee

Hear hear Jamie!

The company car park already sounds like an agricultural show at kicking out time and I have no wish to join them.

You're wrong about the German diesels though, the Belgians bought them. Belgium is that bit you drive through in Europe with the ventilation on recirculate, to keep out the foul-smelling yellow clag.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

See i've had enough of smug diesel owners with their 1.9 tractors spouting about 'torque' and 'oh its very economical on a run you know' when the fact is my car is more powerful than yours.

Dont get me wrong, i have no real problem with diesels, if i needed one i'd have one but i wouldnt try to kid myself by thinking i'd somehow got something magnificent.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

Jamie-if you were to measure how much horsepower you actually use, you'll find that on average, you use less than a sixth of the available 240 odd horsepower. Even under hard acceleration, you probably use little over 100.

So for most practical purposes, th 240hp 3.0 has no benefit over a 130hp 1.9 diesel. At 2000RPM the 1.9 diesel has more available horsepower than the 3.0 petrol. That is more use to a driver.

You can seldom use lots of power-but you can always enjoy economy!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

if you were to measure how much horsepower you actually use, you'll find that on average, you use less than a sixth of the available 240 odd horsepower.

Can you honestly see me being the type to bother measuring horsepower?

So for most practical purposes, th 240hp 3.0 has no benefit over a 130hp 1.9 diesel.

Still better though isnt it? :P Do you think i bought this car purely for practical purposes?

You can seldom use lots of power-but you can always enjoy economy!

In fairness its not that uneconomical. Day to day its averaging 27 which is slightly more than Jag claim it'll do and on its one particularly long voyage down to Portsmouth the computer reckoned it was doing 33.6mpg, which i think is decent considering i was flying down the outside lane at about 95 - i mean 70 *calculates 10% of 70 in my head*....77mph. Yes. Thats what i was doing :)

MG6 - Hypocrisy - Trilogy

jamie, something magnificent

Indeed, most diesels are not magnificent. Some get close e.g. a BMW 33OD is rated by some as being better than the petrol version. I'm not saying it is as good as a V8/V12!!!

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

I will admit that for everyday driving, diesels are perfectly fine and have been for many years now. What annoys me about them is the nature of many people who drive them, people who spent £3000 more than the petrol equivalent to save £4.76 a week in fuel in their car they do 6k a year in.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

It is decent. But I wouldn't scoff at the 1.9TDIs in the car park. They're pretty cool too-but in a different way.

i mean 70 *calculates 10% of 70 in my head*....77mph. Yes. Thats what i was doing :)

10%+3mph Jamie. Don't forget the 3. :-)

MG6 - Hypocrisy - jamie745

It is decent. But I wouldn't scoff at the 1.9TDIs in the car park. They're pretty cool too-but in a different way.

No. They're not cool in any way at all.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - bonzo dog

The Chinese are only now entering the UK / European market in any sort of meaningful way

They have to start somewhere & in order to build a dealer network they need a car to sell ..... they have.

Is it perfect? ..... no, but it is here & the dealers who are stocking it realise the impact the Chinese are going to have on the UK, European & worldwide automotive market & they want to be in at the start.

I for one don't believe the Chinese will do to the other car manufacturers what the Japanese did to the rest of the world motorcycle manufacturers in the 1970s, but the rest will need to buck up their ideas if they want to stay with the Chinese once they get going.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - RT

10%+3mph Jamie. Don't forget the 3. :-)

NOT !!!

The unofficial limit is 10% + 1 mph - at 10% +2mph you're considered a fair target.

MG6 - Hypocrisy - unthrottled

Damn! But thanks anyway.

That figures. Friend of mine was 'done' at 35 in a 30. That equates to 10%+2. Ouch! He got away with a speed revenue course though.