Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff)

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 11:59
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - RickyBoy

Mrs RickyBoy's newish Fiesta needs its coolant topping-up. We have at least half-a-litre of Renault's own-brand leftover from her last Clio which was bought in the past 12-months.

Is there any danger in pouring Renault pre-mixed stuff into a Ford or should one really stick to the respective manufacturer recommended liquids?

Best ...

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 14:22
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - Ethan Edwards

I sincerely doubt there's any difference other than the labelling. Renault make cars...stuff like this is just bought in and given fancy packaging and a big price hike.

As long as it's ethylene glycol based and not el cheapo Methanol it shouldn't be an issue imo. In any event not having anti freeze (and therefore any corrosion inhibitor), if you freeze up will cause far more problems than anything you can do.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 14:39
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - bathtub tom

I sincerely doubt there's any difference other than the labelling. Renault make cars...stuff like this is just bought in and given fancy packaging and a big price hike.

As long as it's ethylene glycol based and not el cheapo Methanol it shouldn't be an issue imo.

No, No, No!

There's a massive difference between 'old' and new long life anti-freeze and they don't mix.

RTFB !

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 15:27
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - Ethan Edwards

Tom -why not just learn some basic chemistry instead.

No there isn't a 'massive difference'. Read on mate.

...................

What is the difference between ethylene glycol and propylene glycol?

Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are chemically similar. Ethylene glycol has the chemical formula C2H6O2. Propylene has the chemical formula C3H8O2. Ethylene glycol has a slightly higher boiling point than propylene glycol. Ethylene glycol is less expensive to produce and is more widely used. Propylene glycol is less toxic.

I have seen propylene glycol based antifreeze sold as an environmentally friendly alternative to ethylene glycol based antifreeze. Is this true?

Both propylene glycol and ethylene glycol have similar biodegradability and will eventually break down into nontoxic byproducts. Neither should be dumped in the environment. Antifreeze picks up heavy metals such as lead during use in the engine. Therefore, both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol antifreezes should be returned to a recycling center to minimize harmful effects on our environment after use. Spills should be cleaned up immediately.

Ethylene glycol is more toxic than propylene glycol. Ingesting a small amount of ethylene glycol is far more dangerous for small children or animals, for example, than ingesting a small amount of propylene glycol. Take appropriate steps to prevent the ingestion of either ethylene or propylene glycol, as well as new or used engine coolants containing these glycols.

Can I add propylene glycol based antifreeze to my existing ethylene glycol based antifreeze?

Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are chemically very similar and can be mixed without harming the cooling system. Ethylene glycol does have better heat transfer properties than propylene glycol. Adding propylene glycol does not make the ethylene glycol less toxic.

Now AFAIK there are but three chemicals used for automotive antifreeze.

Methanol which is very old tech and evaporates - not used in radiators much anymore.

Ethylene Glycol - used for yonks.

Propylene Glycol - now being mrketed as long life etc.

Unless you know of another Tom.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 15:32
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - unthrottled

OAT Organic Acid technology. It's only advantage is that it lasts 5 years or more.

As far as keeping things cool is concerned, plain water is by far the most effective medium. Add just as much corrosion inhibiter to prevent corrosion and freezing in winter.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 15:35
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - Ethan Edwards

OAT only refers to the corrosion inhibitor not the anti freeze chemical. Thats still glycol based.

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Wed 18 Jan 2012 20:56
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - outlier

Keeping things cool without freezing or boiling is the easy part.

Avoiding corrosion with high temps, long term in a system which has metal alloys is the hard part. Then there is the thorny question of cavitation.

All the bangers I used to drive were had coolant that was full of "rust". Nowadays with long life coolants I don't seem to see that. I doubt many bother to change the coolant at 5 years intervals.

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Wed 18 Jan 2012 21:17
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - unthrottled

Cavitation is generally only an issue for heavy duty diesels that use wet liners. Complete non issue for petrols and most light duty diesels.

I prefer short life coolant because I run about 15-20% antifreeze in the summer and 60-70% antifreeze (straight) in the winter. Don't bother flushing. Simply take off the lower radiator hose and dump the coolant. Top up with the required mix. No need to flush. No bleeding, no faffing. With such short intervals there's always plenty of corrosion inhibitor floating around.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 14:37
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - ChannelZ

Generally, if it's the same colour, it's OK to use.

Pink/orange stuff shouldn't be mixed with the green/blue stuff. Other than that, I think you're fine.

I just used Halford's "Advanced" concentrated stuff in the Mondeo, it's a f***y orange colour, and replaced some tired looking pink stuff from 2004 that was in there.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 15:24
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - unthrottled

I don't think you'll find much methanol in antifreeze. Methanol and aluminium get on a little too well. ;)

I wouldn't bother with any of the OEM mixtures since I change the strength from summer to winter anyway.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 15:34
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - Ethan Edwards

Indeed but as the OP asked most probably just for topping up purposes it's not going to be an issue. the rule is if your topping up more than 10% then flush the system and put fresh in.

Incidentally AFAIK the type of corrosion inhibitor has absolutely nothing to do with the colour of the liquid.

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Tue 17 Jan 2012 15:43
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - unthrottled

According to bluecols website:

"The difference between the two colours is that Orange / Red antifreeze contains a different type of corrosion inhibitor that has a much longer life than silicates, phosphates and borates. Orange / Red antifreeze contains organic acids that protect engine parts from corrosion. Green antifreeze does not mix with long life antifreeze. Never mix the two colours in a cooling system. The organic acids in orange types will cause precipitation of silicates in the green type and corrosion protection is greatly reduced." Of course, the colour is just a dye-but it is used as an indicator as to the composition!
www.bluecol.co.uk/index.cfm?page=75
What a good website. Useful information and not a picture of a scientist in a white coat or F1 car anywhere. Take note Shell! Incidentally, they claim that one of their products 'Bluecol U' is compatible with all types of antifreeze.

Edited by unthrottled on 17/01/2012 at 15:47

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Wed 18 Jan 2012 15:37
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - ianhad2

Just use what you have. It's not like you have an F1, is it?

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Thu 19 Jan 2012 11:34
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - Hamsafar

The easy rule is never mix two colours, that's why they are coloured.

Different glycol types listed above are irrelevant.

It is the additives that don't play nicely when mixed.

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Thu 19 Jan 2012 11:44
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - madf

Toyota use long life OAT antifreeze with a 10 year life - which solves lots of issues..

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Thu 19 Jan 2012 11:52
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - bathtub tom

Why should it be necessary to change anti-freeze at regular intervals?

I syphon a little out each year and pop it in the freezer (-20c). If it doesn't freeze, I assume it's good enough.

Perhaps the corrosion inhibitors deteriorate? I've never been able to find anything definitive to to support this.

Mine's been in eight years, it's not long-life!

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Thu 19 Jan 2012 12:02
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - unthrottled

I'm not worried about freezing. Antifreeze is a much less effective coolant than plain water, so it allows for a faster engine warm up in winter when the cooling system is more of a hindrance than help. I block off the entire lower grille as well.

In summer, I want as much cooling as I can get, so I run as much water as I can.

Not a huge difference, but as a well known supermarket says "every little helps".

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Thu 19 Jan 2012 16:46
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - RickyBoy

Thanks for the interesting and varied replies. As always, appreciated ...

... I bit the bullet and went for Ford's own Motorcraft Super plus stuff @ £7.80something a litre in the end – I know, I know – win some/lose some, etc. It took 500ml to bring it up to the max mark, so, piece of mind for Mrs RB and her lease car – all for the price of a Fancy-Dan cup of coffee!

Until the next query ...

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Thu 19 Jan 2012 18:36
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - corax

Perhaps the corrosion inhibitors deteriorate? I've never been able to find anything definitive to to support this.

This is what Car Mechanics says -

" The corrosion inhibitors get used up over time in the traditional 2 year types. Silicate and phosphate. They get eaten up by the metals in the engine, preventing them from eating each other. But when the silicate runs out, the antifreeze loses it anti corrosion abilities.

The longlife OAT antifreezes contain organic acids that last much longer. "

If you keep your car for long enough, you'll find plenty of evidence in the form of prematurely corroded radiators, corrosion of the cylinder head e.t.c.

I used to change the coolant in my BMW with it's all alloy engine every year. Cheap to do, and it kept the sometimes problematic cooling system healthy. The E36 radiators can silt up and bow out at the bottom, very common with neglect. I had my car six years and the radiator was still in great nick when I sold it.

Changing coolant is cheap insurance. With the long life coolants, things are easier - the problem now is trying to remember when the five or ten years is up! But it won't concern people who don't own cars long term, or buy nearly new.

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Fri 20 Jan 2012 08:38
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - madf

Changing coolant is cheap insurance. With the long life coolants, things are easier - the problem now is trying to remember when the five or ten years is up

2013 in my case:

Easy peasy look at the reg date and add 10... Even I at my advanced age and diminished intellectual powers (did I have any anyway?) can do that. :-)

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Fri 20 Jan 2012 16:06
Coolant (the costly manufacturer produced stuff) - corax

Easy peasy look at the reg date and add 10... Even I at my advanced age and diminished intellectual powers (did I have any anyway?) can do that. :-)

Yeah, I know madf, I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

:)

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