[quote]The new Citigo/Mii/Up is a classic example of marketing over substance. The average Perodua Myvi would beat one of these hands down on quality and price but buyers will flock to the "Brand". [/quote]
So the VW Up is starting at 8k the skoda version is £500 cheaper, the Perodua Myvi starts at £8400
The Perodua also only has a 36,000 mile warranty :( and to be perfectly honest like most of the other small Asian box cars looks horrible.
I recently had a Mazda 6 Sport a nice car with full leather BOSE sound system and loads of 'gadgets'. However after 18 months I changed it, something was 'missing' it was a soulless drive too insular. I also had a CRV again a nice car and I believed the magazines regarding the perceived quality, however after 6 months and the cheap plastic was starting to scratch etc it was annoying. The Land rover freelander although a pig of reliability and water leaks put a better smile on my face when actually driving.
My wife currently drives an i10 a fantastic little car both in value and packaging, but my is it boring.
I am driving a 2011 Skoda Octavia Vrs with a lovely petrol 2.0Tsi engine that I love getting into every day as it 'engages' something in me that the Mazda didn't. The interior isn't as stylish as the Mazda, but the quality is better, the layout just works whereas the Mazda was 'let's just put a switch there' as we think it looks good.
I'm sorry no car is perfect however like a pair of trousers I have the right to buy a stylish pair that costs a little more that lasts a little less, rather than look like Nylon Nigel !
If you want a bar of chocolate why choose a Dairy milk over a Galaxy bar?
Maybe some people would be happy if everyone just drove east German Trabants !
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So the VW Up is starting at 8k the skoda version is £500 cheaper, the Perodua Myvi starts at £8400 The Perodua also only has a 36,000 mile warranty :( and to be perfectly honest like most of the other small Asian box cars looks horrible).
The Perodua Myvi comes with a 36 month/60,000 mile manufacturers warranty, and is a licence-built Daihatsu Sirion, built in Malaysia. Engines are shared with some Toyota models (Toyota own 51% of Daihatsu). The current UK price for the manual 1.3 Myvi is £ 6,999.
The VW Up comes with a 2 year unlimited mileage manufacturers warranty and a further 1 year/60,000 mile warranty (presumably dealer network warranty as per Ford, etc), and is built in Slovakia. VW only covers the seat coverings, floor coverings and shock absorbers for six months.
The Up is a fairly bland looking city car. The Myvi an equally bland looking supermini.
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PMSL I think you will find that the Myvi price of £6999 includes a £1000 manufacturer discount, presumably because people need an incentive to buy such a bland little car. It's also a dirty little beast at £115/£165 a year road tax.
The VW etc is a brand new car on the market they will not discount it yet will they?
Stop comparing apples with oranges and at least tell the full story please.
Edited by 2.0Tsi on 06/01/2012 at 19:44
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Yet another thread featuring reverse-snobbery where apparently anybody who doesnt buy a cheap Asian car is a moronic badge snob.
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Allowing for the £1000 discount - this makes the pre discount list price of the Myvi the same as the Up, and not the £ 8400 you quoted.
Having said that, the Up should be compared to other city cars like the Panda, 107, C1, Aygo, Pixo, and Alto, and not cars from the next class up. Comparing the Up with other city cars is comparing apples with apples.
Jamie. Lets face it - all cars in the city cars class are made either in the Far East, or Eastern Europe. For example: Alto, Pixo, i10 - India; Splash/Agila - Hungary; Up - Slovakia;Panda (up to the 2011 model), 500 and Ka - Poland; 107/C1/Aygo - the Czech Republic; Spark and Picanto - Korea.
The only exception will be the new Panda where production will be moved to Italy.
So with the exception of the new Panda, one hasn't had a choice of buying a city car that is made in Western Europe.
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Picking up on the message subject, quite literally, I think the current C5 is really rather a pleasant design - saloon as well as estate.
I'll prepare for brickbats, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's because that in these days of such cars being so similar, it does have a bit of character, dare I say French idiosyncracicies? The fact that it's a saloon, the way the rear window concaves, the unusual fixed steering wheel hub, the cornering headlights, its "presence". The fact that the suspension seems to insulate you pretty well from the bad roads.
OK, I know folk will come on and say things like "rapid depreciation, French unreliability cliches, no steering/road feel etc". But hey, all these cars drop value quickly and most makes do have their faults.
In fact, crazy as I might be, but I'm seriously thinking of getting one!
Do I need therapy?!
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Not at all - you express very well how subjective this issue of 'passion' is: passion comes from the heart, not the head. Because we're all different, different things turn us on, even in terms of inanimate objects like cars. (And it's nothing to do with reverse snobbery or any other sort of snobbery.)
I too drive a 2011 Octavia vRS, and I agree that the lovely torquey petrol engine gives me a buzz in a way that its predecessor, a diesel vRS with very similar performance, didn't quite - even though the diesel was a manual and this one has DSG. Illogical perhaps, but we're not talking logic. The Octavia vRS is effectively a Golf GTI estate, and I'm sure a GTI would put a similar smile on my face.
The Skoda has better performance than my old BMW Z3, but that too gives a buzz of a different sort, coming partly from driving it with the hood down, partly from the glorious noise of a BMW straight-six.
if there's one common thread binding all our posts together, it may be response to the accelerator - an area where Vauxhalls apart from those badged VXR fall down. Some Japanese cars do too, though in fairness not my daughter's several consecutive 1.3 Yarises. If you want a small car combining liveliness with reliability, look no further than a Yaris, although it has to be the 1.3.
Edited by Avant on 06/01/2012 at 23:32
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As Jamie said,
(Yet another thread featuring reverse-snobbery where apparently anybody who doesnt buy a cheap Asian car is a moronic badge snob.)
I agree, and my mrs drives a Hyundai i10 ! The thing is I don't feel the need to broadcast it as the 'perfect' solution. It is functional, reliable and was cheaper new per month than the bus for her to get to work ! But the thing is she doesn't care or have any passion for the vehicle she drives it is simply a functional process.
As for the Myvi again, I won't get into the fact that you have to start adding to the cost for 'remote' central locking etc bumping the price up further. Let's face it, it is a pig of a car like the Sirion that only a minor few will buy and have to justify their 'left field' purchase. They better run them into the ground as they are worth peanuts outside warranty/first owner.
Alfa Romeo continue to sell cars in the UK even although they are perceived as problematic ? Because people can see and feel the design/ethos behind the badge, they design cars that have a sound and feel like no other it is not advertising you can feel it !
Jap/Korean cars are simply 'cardigan' cars they could almost be the 'grey man in the corner' an accountants choice. Well done if that's your choice, that's the difference from having to drive Trabants all those years ago, democracy's!
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Avant nice choice of car ;) I have the HB although I think the estate looks better !
I presume your daughter drives the Yaris for the same reasons my wife drives the i10, reliability and does the job? Do the Yaris's still have that central digital speedo :( ?
The wife's i10 is 'nippy' for a city car 0-60 in 12s is very good for the class and can embarrass larger cars, however I reckon hers has never seen more than 3000 revs ever !
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2.0Tsi,
You really have got a burr under your saddle about Daihatsu/Perodua.
Unfortuantely you then go on to contradict yourself by praising the Toyota Yaris, and of course the Sirion/Myvi are basically re-metalled Yaris' - the running gear is for all intents and purposes identical. Plus, Toyota own Daihatsu.
Incidentally (not a lot of people know this) Daihatsu were the first Japanese car company to import to UK and sadly for us they don't trade here any more due to the exchange rate. They were actually Japans best kept secret, but were looked down upon as nasty cars when the reality is they actually aren't. They were an absolute bargain but they didn't have the "badge".
I would stack my 2008 Sirion to match your car for most features, comfort, economy, and driving thrill, and don't bet the farm that you would beat me away from the traffic lights either. And all that fun for a minimal cost.
Don't believe everything Jeremy Clarkson says. You and he don't have a monopoly on passion.
Regards
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Speaking of Alfas, in the 90s we had an unusual hire car on holiday. It was an Alfa 33 1.3, the flat-four motor from the Sud but with 2x twin-choke carbs, one per bank of cylinders. I don't believe this variant was ever available in the UK but boy, what a fun car it was.
With that induction set-up, the motor was a constant delight, gurgling and woffling along at a cruise, yet with a real purposeful snarl / induction hiss when accelerating and a lovely gargling whine on the overrun.
The pedals were also perfectly set-up for heel-and-toe work so you could indulge your Mille Miglia / Targa Florio fantasies on twisty roads :)
Of course, it was an early-90s Alfa with terrible driving position, 'approximate' build quality and crashy ride, but the damn' thing was alive.
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Speaking of Alfas, in the 90s we had an unusual hire car on holiday. It was an Alfa 33 1.3, the flat-four motor from the Sud but with 2x twin-choke carbs, one per bank of cylinders. I don't believe this variant was ever available in the UK but boy, what a fun car it was.
With that induction set-up, the motor was a constant delight, gurgling and woffling along at a cruise, yet with a real purposeful snarl / induction hiss when accelerating and a lovely gargling whine on the overrun.
The pedals were also perfectly set-up for heel-and-toe work so you could indulge your Mille Miglia / Targa Florio fantasies on twisty roads :)
Of course, it was an early-90s Alfa with terrible driving position, 'approximate' build quality and crashy ride, but the damn' thing was alive.
Exhaust tuning - or more accurately exhaust mistuning - can make any engine sound exciting and it certainly adds to the "passion" factor - the MGB even managed it with the asthmatic 5-port B-series engine.
The H4 in the Alfa Sub was of course the same layout as VW Beetle and Subaru used - it's the unequal length/phasing of the exhaust branches that give the nice burble - shared with H6 engines like the Porsche 911.
Sadly, by the time I bought a Subaru - the non-turbo versions had been changed to equal length exhaust runners with a real spaghetti of pipework where the branches went forward to the front of the engine, across to one side and then back down along the transmission - smoother but didn't sound as nice.
I think some supercar manufacturers spend a fortune getting the exhaust to sound right.
Edited by RT on 07/01/2012 at 08:54
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What car would Jesus buy?
Regards
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A donkey,from daihatsui ?
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.........you'll be here all week will you, Avant?
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Too many generalisations here for me! Unfair to lump all Jap/Korean cars into a grey boring pile! How about Civic Type S/R, Subaru wrx, Legacy, MR2, MX5, 350Z etc? Hardly a boring list of cars!
For me, we are driving a boggo Focus 1.6, fantastic handling, steering, gearbox. brakes, drivetrain . Dull as dishwater to look at and be in unless driving. Other car is an Octavia Estate, not at all exciting, totally competent, and a decent place to sit for a long time!
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You're right about the sound, RT, but it was also the responses of the car that made it: it went brilliantly for a 1.3. Razor-sharp throttle response, although I daresay that two twin-chokes didn't make for low fuel consumption or emissions ...
One of the last generation of cars where the engine design did NOT start at the exhaust tailpipe.
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Ricardo - I have a C5, 2008 2.7 TDI automatic, and it ticks the boxes for me. No problems thus far after 30,000 miles of mixed driving. About 39 mpg. Usual wonderful Citroen suspension, mitigated only by the 18" wheels I have - the smaller engined ones have 17" or 16", which would be softer. I also find I use the sports setting quite often when not cruising, which makes the car far less barge-like.
Passion? Not quite, but an old man's car for a contented old man!
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Thanks Ed. Oh dear... I'm technically still quite young! So now I'm worried that i am old before my time. But I still like the look of the C5. The ones I am looking at have the steel springs and slightly lower spec, so more comfy wheels then!
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