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Tue 13 Dec 2011 19:39

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

Hi all,

Hoping somebody can give me some guidance on this.

I bought a brand new LCI Mini Cooper petrol back in January 2011. It is a lovely car, but I have been consistently disappointed with the car's fuel consumption.

I initially took it back to the dealer not long after purchase because I was unhappy with it but was told I should leave it until 10,000 miles or so for the engine to loosen up and give it's best economy. I was told there was no fault with the car at all. At that time the mpg was low 30's.

It is now December and the car has done just shy of 12,000 miles and the fuel consumption is 33.7mpg average on the trip computer. I do a mix of town and motorway driving, probably about 50/50. Mini suggest a figure of 52.3mpg. I know this is not attainable in the real world but I would expect low to mid 40's.

I have tried all sorts to get the figure up. I have tried being feather-light with the throttle. I also make use of the start-stop in traffic, change up in line with the shift indicator and I don't run the air con or use the cruise control much. I wouldn't say I'm a particularly heavy footed driver.

My view is that as the sales contract is one of Utmost Good Faith, the dealer and/or manufacturer failed to disclose something to me that was instrumental in choosing the car that they would have known about. I checked with another dealer who said the figure I get is typical for that car so this is clearly no secret to Mini dealers.

I'm wondering what sort of position I could be in to pursue the matter against Mini/the dealership or if anyone has had success/issues with this before. I am extremely disappointed because I really like the car but I am of the view that this is borderline criminal!

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 19:50

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

Unless you can demonstrate that the poor fuel consumption is caused by a fault with the car, being disappointed by poor fuel economy does not fall foul of the SOGA. The simple reason is that the duty cycle/driving style is the biggest factor in determining fuel economy.

Being feather footed with the throttle is actually a very inefficient way to operate an engine. Much better to be firm with the accelerator whilst you accelerate to target speed, then skip straight into top. This is the method I employ-and I get about 10% ABOVE the official combined figure...

NB. Are you sure MINI quote 52.3 for the combined figure? That sounds like an extra urban figure to me. You can't expect to average the out of town figure in mixed driving.

Edited by unthrottled on 13/12/2011 at 19:56

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 20:02

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

Thanks for the advice. I mostly drive it fairly normally, I really only tried the feather footed approach for a little while.

Yeah the figure on combined cycle is 52.3mpg on the Cooper petrol. Thing is, I'm not historically an uneconomical driver. Every other car I've had there have been no issues with which is why this concerns me.

To put it in perspective, I once reset the trip and drove the car from Portsmouth to Newcastle. It was all A-roads and motorway and I kept to a steady 65mph or so. The average consumption was 39mpg even then.

I think I will simply write to MINI and the supplying dealer and voice my disappointment.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 20:45

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

No, you're right, they do claim 52.3 for the 122hp version. I looked at the 09 version which claimed a more reasonable 41mpg

39mpg at 65 is pretty dreadful. But you should be getting other symptoms if the engine was faulty. It is just so rare for an engine to give poor economy with no other faults.

There are other possibilities like dragging brakes etc but your brakes should have cooked/worn out by now!

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:01

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

Oh it's been plugged in to diagnostic machines and all sorts. All they found was a faulty brake sensor that said the brake discs have worn down (the dealer had a look and there is at least 5,000 miles left on them). That made the service indicator come on prematurely.

That dealer also told me the 33.7mpg is "normal"!

The reason I'm unhappy is because MINI dealers clearly know this is an issue and they aren't telling you the figures in the literature are unrealistic when you buy the car. This information would have influenced my decision to buy that particular car over the Audi A3s, VW Sciroccos, Volvo C30s, Alfa MiTo's etc I was also considering.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:26

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

All they found was a faulty brake sensor that said the brake discs have worn down (the dealer had a look and there is at least 5,000 miles left on them)

That would mean that the brake discs had a lifetime of only £17k miles. Only very heavy brake use (either via the operator or a mechanical fault could cause this). This could explain the poor economy.

Try a long run where you purposely use the brakes as little as possible (use the gears to brake if you have to). At the end of the run, cautiously! feel each disc. They should be warm but not hot. If they are hot, ask the dealer to look at the brakes again.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:36

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

All they found was a faulty brake sensor that said the brake discs have worn down (the dealer had a look and there is at least 5,000 miles left on them)

That would mean that the brake discs had a lifetime of only £17k miles. Only very heavy brake use (either via the operator or a mechanical fault could cause this). This could explain the poor economy.

Try a long run where you purposely use the brakes as little as possible (use the gears to brake if you have to). At the end of the run, cautiously! feel each disc. They should be warm but not hot. If they are hot, ask the dealer to look at the brakes again.

I can't quite remember if the service guy was referring to the service being due at 17,000 or the brakes as well. He said there was loads left on them anyway. Perhaps that is my getting muddled up.

I can't say I notice a lot of brake dust on the wheels or anything either but I will give it a go. It needs a run up to Glasgow in a few weeks so I will try it then.

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 12:48

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - V4 Heaven

Hi, my only experience with a 1.6 petrol Mini was when we were loaned one for a week. The fuel economy is poorer than expected - I think we got mid 30s. As people have said, the manufacturers have raised expectations by promoting super-high mpg figures which are not attainable in the real world. Annoying as it is, you can either sell the car or enjoy the driving experience. I found our loan car was quite a nice drive.

As for Alfa Mitos, my wife has a 1.6d version which is economical but not as economical as you would think. 50mpg is the exception, not the rule, and before you all print your unrealist figures for mpg, I can get 45mpg from my 160,000 mile 1.8 petrol Toyota Carina, so I am no stranger to driving economically. Maybe the skinny tyres help as discussed by others.

The Alfa is a great car but if I can give you any advice, if you are after economy, steer clear of the petrol versions. When my wife's car went in for a service we were loaned a 1.4 petrol 140hp version. Low 30s mpg was the result. A very thirsty little engine.

Remeber that the official mpg figures are taken in perfect laboratory conditions on a rolling road. Taken from a website:

The tests themselves are conducted on a ‘Rolling Road’ dynamometer and have two parts. The first part consists of 2.5 miles of accelerating, slowing down and idling in the lower three gears (unless it’s an automatic), after a cold start, at an ambient temperature that we expect to experience on a English summer day. The maximum speed is 30mph and the average 12mph.

Following on immediately from this, the second figure is derived over a further 4.3 miles driving in all gears, accelerating very gently up to a maximum of 75mph, and averaging 39mph. The total fuel consumed in both tests, divided into the total 6.8 miles, gives the combined result.

In these test conditions, much of this driving would be "off-turbo" for a petrol-turbo, hence the seemingly high figures for many types of car. As soon as you drive in the real world, on the roads, in traffic, stop start, on and off the turbo, your mpg will be nowhere near the offical figures.

I would try different fuels, you never know, it may help!

Edited by V4 Heaven on 14/12/2011 at 12:52

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:03

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - 206Hdi

From your post it sounds like you have been relying on the fuel consumption on the trip computer. Usually these are optimistic when reporting fuel consumption (not what you want to hear). However, I have no experience of the consumption computer in a mini and maybe it is under reading. The best thing is to do a brim to brim test and manually work out consumption - you may be pleasantly surprised.

You might also like to try a different fuel supplier - this tends to polarise forums but my view is that some fuels suit specific engines better than others and this affects mpg.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:15

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - sandy56

have a look at the MPG page on this website?

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:19

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

Yeah I took a look at the MPG page on here but those figures don't apply to the 2010-on model. It has a different engine to the 2007-2010 model. The figures on here do seem to be about ballpark though. Bit higher than what I get maybe.

Thanks for the advice on calculating manually! I'll brim the tank tomorrow and give it a go.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:26

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - bazza

Looked up your car on a couple of mpg sites, the average seems to be about 36mpg, with a low of about 29 so you are in the lower part of the range. Agree it's not brilliant but 120 odd petrol bhp in a car weighing 1100 to 1200 kg, can't see how on earth you'd see more than 40 odd mpg and your driving mix of town/motorway isn't ideal for economy.

Assume your tyres are pumped up to the recommended pressures at least and no brakes sticking/binding? Car serviced, air filter ok, the correct grade oil?

I suspect it's a case of the fantasy- land official figures not being achievable in the real world.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 21:31

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

Yeah that is what I seem to have found too so clearly it isn't just my car.

The tyres and everything are fine. It isn't due a service yet (though a faulty ECU made it think it needed one) but they topped the oil up then and gave it a check over. Based on the way it is going it doesn't need serviced until 17,000 miles and it is on 12,000 now.

Those are my thoughts. I suppose my point is that the dealer should be managing expectations correctly on this and selling the car as what it is - a small sports car rather than a green, economical small hatchback.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 22:26

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

I average over 40 in a '96 Megane with a 1600 engine. My commute is only 7 miles so the engine barely gets warmed up in winter. Size, weight and engine capacity are all broadly similar to the mini. At 65 mph, I would get better than 38mpg. The mini should be touching 50 under these conditions.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 23:05

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - nortones2

The power output figures (122bhp) are obtained on 98 RON fuel. As per handbook page 147 where the Australian/NZ engine date are given. I think they are more stringent on what can be claimed down under. Compression ratio of 11:1. My dealer blithely stated 95 RON is fine! Running on 95 will bring down power, and increase fuel consumption as the ignition is retarded. IMHO. I haven't yet done enough miles in the Cooper to check fuel usage, but I'll be running on higher octane fuel ASAP.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 23:17

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

Forget it.

Retard the ignition timing by 5 degrees in a naturally aspirated engine and you might lose 2% power-barely noticeable

At part load (normal driving conditions) octane rating is simply not an issue-especially when the ambient temperature is about 5 Celcius-which it will be for the next month or two. An engine doesn't know what fuel it has been fed. It will only retard timing if it senses knock. Knock is not normally an issue.

Static compression means little on its own.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 23:40

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - nortones2

MINI engine does have a knock sensor, and at a high compression ratio I suggest it might well be off-tune on the lower octane fuels. It's certainly noticeable on the Jazz.

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Tue 13 Dec 2011 23:34

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - jamie745

I average over 40 in a '96 Megane with a 1600 engine.

I KNEW IT!!! I guessed you had a Megane ages ago. You kept your car hidden from us all this time. But i was right. Wheres my lollypop?

In terms of the fuel economy argument, bear in mind the tests are done quite comically and in most cases you can knock 5mpg off what they say you'll get and you should be ballpark. This rule tends to not work with bigger engined petrol cars as they dont bother trying to fake the economy with it, my S-Type says it'll do 27 and it does 27.

Is it me or are newer cars getting worse economy wise? Your example of a 96 Megane getting better economy isnt unique.

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 00:15

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

Yes Jamie, you figured it out -almost bang on-wrong vintage though ;) You've earned your lollipop.

Economy?

Well the car weighs as much as a typical supermini (about a ton)-which helps

It runs on fairly skinny tyres-which also helps a bit.

Cars haven't become less efficient-it's just that expecations have risen because of the ludicrous figures obtained through cycle tuning. I average about 41mpg against an official combined figure of 37.5-I'm fairly happy.

but if I got the same 41 but expected 50, I'd be disappointed.

33mpg from a conservatively driven mini is pretty poor though. You get mid twenties from the Jag without even trying.

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 00:38

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - jamie745

33mpg from a conservatively driven mini is pretty poor though. You get mid twenties from the Jag without even trying.

I agree, its not like i drive it constantly on eco-drive mode. Ive got it to average 34mpg on longer trips (according to the computer), even in outside-lane-rocket-ship mode its still pretty decent. Its a big 3.0litre petrol, automatic, heavy car full of leather and wood which only makes the Mini look worse.

Seeing as i spent £600 on a set of tyres i dont see the point in trying to eek out another 1.7mpg.

Well the car weighs as much as a typical supermini (about a ton)-which helps

Cars are getting heavier now though you cant deny that, each Focus has added weight, its like putting two humans in the boot of the original.

Edited by jamie745 on 14/12/2011 at 00:41

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 08:16

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - nortones2

02 MINI on Rototest dyno: down 7% on torque, tested on 965 RON. www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=131

Cooper S run on 98 RON: gave the rated torque. There may be several factors causing higher fuel consumption than anticipated in the MINI in question.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:48

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

Correlation does not imply causality.

The graph and explanatory notes are not very comprehensive. The manufacturer states net flywheel horsepower. Car magazines almost invariably measure wheel horsepower then try to fudge the drivetrain losses to give an estimate of flywheel horsepower.

Your source doesn't state what (if any) corrections have been made. If the figure quoted is wheel horsepower, then the actual flywheel horsepower would be greater than the manufacturer's claim. Also absent are barometric pressure and ambient temperature-which would affect output.

There is no separate test for 98 RON fuel on the same engine.

That the turbocharged engine from the Cooper S preferred 98 RON is no surprise since the timing will be heavily retarded under WOT.

In any case WOT dyno runs have absolutely no bearing on fuel economy since road load will usually require very small throttle settings. Far more rigorous SAE papers consistantly show no difference in fuel economy when comparing 95 RON and 98 RON on an NEDC or FTP 75 cycle.

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 11:35

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - DEM1985

Yes Jamie, you figured it out -almost bang on-wrong vintage though ;) You've earned your lollipop.

Economy?

Well the car weighs as much as a typical supermini (about a ton)-which helps

It runs on fairly skinny tyres-which also helps a bit.

Cars haven't become less efficient-it's just that expecations have risen because of the ludicrous figures obtained through cycle tuning. I average about 41mpg against an official combined figure of 37.5-I'm fairly happy.

but if I got the same 41 but expected 50, I'd be disappointed.

33mpg from a conservatively driven mini is pretty poor though. You get mid twenties from the Jag without even trying.

Annoyingly mine doesn't have skinny tyres. It has quite fat, low profile run flat ones.

I have never had issues such as this before. Our other car is an Audi TT 2.0TDI. Audi suggest you can get 53.3mpg out of it and I can get 47 which is fine in the real world. I don't drive it much though because it tends to be with my partner in Glasgow and I don't like diesels very much!

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 13:03

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - Bobbin Threadbare

My cousin-in-law has a MINI Cooper and it has rubbish fuel economy. She drives very cautiously as well; not heavy-footed, no bezzing it. Don't know what she gets out of it but she says it eats petrol like it's going out of fashion. They never struck me as economical - I was surprised at the quoted figures!

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 14:08

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - madf

If your driving is 50/50 town and longer, then all you need to do is average 25mpg around town to get your figures.

25mpg around town? Cold engine.stop start driving. : Easy peasy to do..especilly in wet west coast Scotland...

I bet the cat never warnms up either .

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 15:59

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - dieseldogg

Has anyone (or organisation) attempted to calculate the arerage %age difference between quoted MPG figures & realworld ones.

I appreciate that one would need to perhaps have three sets

(i) Urban mostly

(ii) Motorway mostly

(iii) Mixed driving

But oops?................................. I guess that is what the three oficially quoted figures are intended to refer to, yes?

I figger on a 17.5% drop against the quoted combined figure, my driving being truly averagely mixed. So i get 50 odd mpg against a claimed 61 odd mpg

I suppose a 20% reduction would be a reasonably figure for most ?

Edited by dieseldogg on 14/12/2011 at 16:00

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 16:26

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

Has anyone (or organisation) attempted to calculate the arerage %age difference between quoted MPG figures & realworld ones.

HJ for a start!

The problem is that 'normal' driving is so very subjective. I didn't take OP's complaint seriously until he defined the problem. Intuitively, we know that 38mpg at a steady 65mph from a warm engine hasn't a cat in hell's chance of obtaining 52mpg in mixed driving under ANY conditions.

You can't really take knock a fixed percentage figure off the official figures because of the way the test is conducted. By this I mean that some cars will be driven to minimise emissions which MUST be passed, as opposd to fuel economy which is simply desirable. This is probably why some cars can get closer to their official figures than others.

Edited by unthrottled on 14/12/2011 at 16:26

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 17:28

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - 2.0Tsi

I remember reading Auto Express and they covered the MPG claims ACTUALLY driving the test conditions for Urban/Combined etc. At the end of the test they reckoned you should subtract 20% from each of the measured MPG claims.

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Wed 14 Dec 2011 20:00

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

What, they actually ran a full NEDC?

Sounds a bit technically advanced for Auto Express!

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 09:28

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - dieseldogg

Sniff!

Unthrottled, I am aware of the HJ "real world fuel consumption" facility, it does not, that I am aware, however attempt to compute an average %age reduction figure.

Pedantic I know.

What this facility would/could/should show is the varience between drivers and or driving conditions, it is however subject to the competance & honesty of the contributors?, which as an unfortunate observer of human nature in the wider population, over a considerable number of years, I have found should generally be regarded with a deal of skeptisism.

OOPS

Glad to see that at least one publication agrees with my 20% reduction analysis

Edited by dieseldogg on 15/12/2011 at 09:29

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 12:06

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - warsaw boy

I have 10reg Cooper Clubman. My average over 11k miles is 44mpg. Why?

1. I dont use start/stop because I live in MK and we have no traffic jams!

2. My driving is split 50/50: lots of very short trips of 2 miles and 70 miles on motorway.

3. I dont go over 3000rpm I never expected 50mpg + ave

Great car

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:36

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

I think the HJ facility is useful (albeit incomplete). It gives the official combined economy, and readers submit their own. you can then take the average of all the results and work out a percentage difference, no?

Yes, there's the problem of self evaluation, but I don't think tha's any worse than the problem of relying on a statistical sample of one magazine tester...

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:40

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - jamie745

Looking at HJ's real world fuel economy figures for Jaguar its interesting im not the only one who gets slightly more than what Jaguar claim it'll do. Im guessing when these cars went for their economy tests they werent 'geared up' as it were just to impress the test because what'd be the point? Lots of 'eco cars' struggle to get near their claimed figures, usually because the extra-urban figure is so optimistic when in fact the S-Type just toodles down a motorway at 70mph still on tickover.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:47

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - daveyjp

During the summer my B class did almost 40 to the gallon on urban trips - official figure is 34.9. Now winter is here, traffic is heavier and I'm using more electrical equipment it is anything from mid thirties, to a lowest of the low 28mpg a couple of nights ago when I was in very slow traffic for almost an hour to cover 6 miles.

The long term average in my ownership (9,500 miles) is just over 36mpg, which is a similar figure to my previous 3 cars which have all been diesels.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:43

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - madf

Yaris d4d official average 64.2mpg.

Mainly round town. 10% long journeys.

6 year average 57mpg.. down 10%

Edited by madf on 15/12/2011 at 15:44

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:44

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - jamie745

10% below the manufacturers figures when 90% of the driving is round town is pretty good going to be fair.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 15:47

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - samo

I have to agree with Warsaw boy here, have a 2010 Cooper Clubman with 13000 miles on the clock and the lowest recorded average for a tank of fuel (by the computer) is 42mpg and on a long run up the coast was able to get 58 at one stage although have noticed that the cold seems to be bringing the figures down to my lower limit. To say drive slowly would be wrong but don't go mad either. Oh and my car doesn't have the start/stop thing so its not going to make a difference.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 16:11

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - dieseldogg

Most excellent Madf,

& since we have a diesel Yaris on order for our daughter, (who is as odd & pedantic as her ould Da) that should be sommat to look forward to.

I said to the Mrs that I reckoned on 60mpg agin the claimed 72 mpg, be interesting to see how she fares with a mix of city driving and longer motorway weekend runs.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 17:42

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - memyself-aye

Off topic I know but I had a 1.8 petrol Vauxhall Insinia for a 3 day test drive and went from Tamworth to Northumberland via the M6. Filled the tank at the outset and the range indicator said 429 miles before I run out of fuel. As expected for the first few miles the range went up as the car warmed up. I settled in to a steady 55 mph on an empty motorway-no hold ups at all.

It was not until I reached Kendall services that the range finally started to come down from a high of 449 miles.

Now if all cars were that good.....

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 19:07

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

...depends on the size of the tank!

Assuming a 55 litre tank that works out at 40mpg...

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 17:54

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - madf

Thanks dd.

Mine is a Mark1 so you should do better.

The only thing I did early (bought with 25k miles) was to clean the EGR valve (easy 1 hour job but not vry dirty) and I run diesel injector cleaner once every year. I also only use Shell (Drivers Club Card plus cheap prices in central Stoke near Morrisons to keep them honest)

On long runs 67 +mpg is possible at c 65 -70mph ..

Italian tune up once a month...Keep tyre pressures spot on.

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Thu 15 Dec 2011 19:10

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - unthrottled

The newer diesels really do benefit from an Italian tune up quite frequently. You're going to use fuel one way or the other to burn the soot off from the DPF-so you may as well get some power from it!

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Fri 16 Dec 2011 09:13

MINI Cooper - MPG on a Mini Cooper - dieseldogg

I do somewhat begrudgingly run at 80 odd on the Motorway as even with the higher speed the longer run still keeps my consumption in or around 50, plus, as above,

I too feel that an odd "blast" does the engine good.

In 25,000 miles of mostly shorter runs I have never been aware of the DPF being an problem, occasionally smell it working, otherwise not an issue.

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