Has anybody had a problem with Citroen Peugeot HDI 90 engines stalling easily? The car has been back to the dealer whose diagnostics found nothing wrong. They tightened the turbo pipe. (2002 Picasso HDI, 2 months old)
Do HDI engines repond differently to different brands of diesel?
Thanks in advance
Ben
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Hi Ben
My C5 (2.2HDI) has (very) occasionally stalled coming out of the garage in the morning. It doesn't bother me though. I think it's just the fact that they are normally so unflappable that it takes you a bit by surprise! Is your Picasso doing it very often?
Not sure about different brands of diesel - you might be right. I've wondered if it's anything to do with the EOLYS fluid that's pumped into mine after a refill.
All the best for Christmas everyone!
Graeme.
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The Pic seems to stall when warm, if you have driven a 1999 or 2000 PSA car with the 1.4i petrol and coil problems, it is quite like that, you put the power on and nothing happens, it can either go with a bang or just stop.
I think the lack of a rev counter may be part of the problem, I think you may learn about your engine with a rev counter.
We are currently running on Shell diesel, from a (busy) garage we haven't bought diesel from before, only Optimax.
I thought you had a 2.2 HDI auto? If so, does that stall? Only the C5 2.2 and the 307 2.0 HDI 110 have FAP and therefore EOLYS. I don't think EOLYS is pumped in each time.
Ben
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Hi Ben
Mine's the 2.2 Manual (Exclusive) I hear the EOLYS pump going every time I switch off the engine at the end of the journey home from the pumps. Pretty sure it does it every time - wondered what it was the first time I heard it!
As I say, though, it happens so seldom it doesn't bother me in the slightest - just like a hiccup!
Have a good Christmas!
Graeme
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Could also be the suspension pump or the fuel pump or something. My unsophisticated Xsara 1.4 1999 model makes a whirring noise 5 secs after turning off, about the same time as the key-in-ignition noise stops.
Ben
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As the owner of 2.0ltr HDI engined car I am interested in knowing what FAP and EOLYS are or stand for. Please will one of you learned people help on this?
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Yeah, me too!
MG-Rover Problems? Click on forums.mg-rover.org
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FAP is is a particle filter that collects the carbon that forms the black soot created by diesel engines. The FAP is found on the C5 2.2 and the Pug 307 110 HDI. The particle filter works by collecting the carbon particles then burning them at a very high heat. This leaves no soot coming out of the exhaust. The high heat is created by injecting EOLYS into the fuel. This cycle happens approx every 500 miles, depending on driving conditions. The EOLYS is held in a seperate tank and is topped up by the dealer at, I believe, the 60,000 mile service.
More about Citroen technology on www.citroen.com/site/htm/en/technologies/today/use...s
Ben
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The Peugeot/Citroen soot-burning system is brilliant but it clearly puts a significant on-cost onto the car. I think this must be the same system that I investigated before escaping into retirement a couple of years ago. If so, it functions as follows (this conflicts slightly with XsaraBen's account so I may be a bit out of date):
1. The additive (which I assume is now known as EOLYS) is held in a separate tank and is bled into the fuel at a controlled rate.
2. The EOLYS enables the soot to burn at a slightly lower temperature than normal.
3. A special heat-generating catalyst in the exhaust increases the temperature of the EOLYS-treated soot particles to a point where they are hot enough to combust.
4. An extra 'out-of-phase' shot of fuel is injected into the engine at specified intervals under the control of the ECU. This extra fuel passes unburnt into the heat-generating catalyst to feed it and so keep it hot enough to work.
As I said, a brilliant system but preventing formation of soot particles at source must be the ultimate aim for all diesel engines. Likewise for petrol engines where generally invisible particules are formed.
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XsaraBen,
I have just taken a look at the Citroen site that you mentioned and this confirms my account of how their soot-burning system works. Citroen's explanation is a bit difficult to follow so I can understand the slight confusion. Citroen say...>
The PF traps the particles on a filter and burns them at regular intervals. The particles burn naturally at around 550 °C, but the initial temperature of the exhaust gases is only 150 °C at the manifold outlet.
The PF modifies these two parameters through:
- a post-injection of fuel in the expansion phase, which generates post-combustion in the cylinder and raises the temperature of the gases by 200 °C to 250 °C, to around 350 °C to 400 °C.
- additional post-combustion generated by an oxidation catalyser placed upstream of the filter, which treats the unburned hydrocarbons from the post-injection phase. The temperature may increase by a further 100 °C, up to 450 °C or 500 °C.
- the fuel additive Eolys fuel additive. This additive lowers the natural particle combustion temperature to 450 °C.
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What has all this got to do with stalling?;I've driven diesels for many years-most of them Ford-they will all-repeat all-drive away at idle even when cold.
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>>I've driven diesels for many years-most of them Ford-they will all-repeat all-drive away at idle even when cold.
I think I'm right in saying that Ford diesels prior to the TDCI engines are mechanical injection affairs with no ECU. Which is probably why older diesels are so reliable, there's very little to go wrong.
Newer common-rail engines, the HDI is one such motor, have full engine managment complete with electronically controlled injectors, so they don't always perform like a 'traditional' diesel. Although that's still no excuse for stalling, but a stuck sensor somewhere never used to be a problem for the old peugeot XUD (like mine) but it could be for the HDI.
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We have put it down to a funny tank of diesel. I think a rev counter would make things easier.
Sorry, we got a bit distracted with other diesel things.
Ben
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Apologies from me also. The soot-burning thing seemed to crop up quite naturally in this thread but I did ramble on a bit!
Yes, we must keep on-topic and I'll try harder in future. That's my first (and last) New Year resolution!
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Sorry - I mentioned the EOLYS etc. Apologies, but very best wishes to all for Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Graeme
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Ford diesels-IDI from about '96 had mechanical pumps controlled by an ECU;an ECU had been on Transit diesels long before that.
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