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I am astounded people are discussing the price levels without knowing the model - it could be 320D, 325D, 330D or a 335D - the OP hasn't told us what model it is, or has he/she?
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If the price is right (get the glass price part exchange prices via telegraph motoring section,. Also look at actual sale prices on eBay completed sales, and then arrive at a sensible estimate for the car in question).
Do remeber that a Sport commands a good 10-15% premium over the SE. ES should be around 5% cheaper than a SE.
I personally would not hesitate to buy it, if it has been serviced by BMW as per requirements. Get the manifold changed upon buying it, and then enjoy your motor. The worst that can go wrong is a turbo - 1.5k should cover that with change left.
I have used a variety of BMWs since 2004, all bought with over 80k - fingers crossed, they have been very reliable. I have only had a turbo blow up on one of them. In spite of the car being well over 3 years old and 95k on clock, BMW footed more than 50% of the bill.
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Ok we dont know the exact spec of the car but judging by how its supposedly 'perfect' i gathered it was a pretty high spec model so 12k sounded about right, certainly ballpark figure. But thats ballpark figure for some lower mileage ones with warranties hence why i said he'd probably take about 10k. If he came on and said "oh its up for 6 grand" then it'd be obvious theres something wrong with it. Thats all i was saying.
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Thanks for all your advise. Particularly around using Glasses etc to get a rough pricing, that will give me confidence to haggle. On the subject of paying for the car, when you say offer the dealer cash, do you mean literally the wad of notes? Or can the dealer get the same benefits if you offer to do a bank transfer? We haven't talked too much about payment methods yet but he did say he took debit cards.
A friend has recommended waiting a few weeks as he suggested a few more cars might be come available with the change of plates in a few weeks so I don't think I'll hurry into anything.
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I'd never recommend paying that much in cash, i bought my car in cash, £5k which was £1500 less than he planned to put it up for but really any major amount of money you should be paying by cards. Debit card should give you good protection on your payment and theres no waiting to clear either so he can release the car right away.
A few more cars may crop up with the plate change but in all truth thats run of the mill fantasy logic which 'that bloke who knows about cars' often spouts down the pub. If a manufacturer is changing to a new model it drops the value of the old one meaning a sixth month old car can plummet in price yes, but you're talking about a top level car which holds its value well.
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Is this serious?
You are happy to pay about £10,000 to a trader whose premises consist of a yard which he coukd probbaly leave with a few days notice, and who has already made it quite clear to you that he doesn't intend to honour any legal obligations he has wrt warranty?
My first car cost £140, from a man much like that. I would never recommend anyone else to buy even a banger from that sort of source, and I'm quite amazed that anyone would even contemplate making such an expensive purchase from that sort of source.
You would be much better off being less fussy about the spec you want, and buying elsewhere.
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I personally wouldnt buy new-ish BMW from anywhere other than BMW dealer of some sort. I said around 10k is probably about right for that car and people have explained the potential problems to the OP. Would i buy it? No, even if it was 'perfect' as the OP claims. The OP seems very keen on this car as it is exactly what he's looking for and he was advised to get a thorough check on it first, in an ideal world you dont want to have to take it back anyway, so you shouldnt have to care who the dealer is if the car speaks for itself and comes up to scratch. I expressed concern of why its ended up there in the first place as they're generally traded in an re-sold through BMW franchised dealers. If he takes cards he's reasonably legit to have that set up, ive come across dealers in a hut with a mobile phone and a cashbox before, he's clearly not one of those.
If its somewhat high above the value of the rest of his stock the chances are the company/insurance etc he uses for his warranties wont cover a car of that value, hence why he's not offering a warranty on it. So its worth seeing if most of his stock is 5-10 year old Vectra's or something as that would make sense but even so if theres no warranty you want a sizable amount off.
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The yard has a range of cars from about 5k to 15k, with about 20% of cars in the 10-15k bracket. All of which are high mileage, 3-4 years old etc.
My point about waiting for the new plates wasn't about expecting a drop in value but the fact that the volume of new cars being sold will rise for a few weeks and there should be a few more cars that fit the bill of what I'm after.
Thanks again for your comments. I am going to leave this car be for a while and see what else is out there. If I do go back to it though I will make sure the dealer agrees that the SOGA applies.
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I am going to leave this car be for a while and see what else is out there.
Good call.
If I do go back to it though I will make sure the dealer agrees that the SOGA applies.
You know he has already been trying to wiggle out of his legal obligations, before you even bought it. What makes you think that any assurances you drag out of him now will be of any use once your cash is in his bank account?
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The reason it has been "shunned" by BMW dealers should be pretty obvious: it has done 105k miles. Franchised dealers simply do not deal in cars with these miles.
It will have been bought from either lease disposal or possibly even a BMW auction sale (where BMW dealers also buy but the lower mileage stuff) at BCA or Manheim. If it was a lease car it will probably have some sort of history print out you can check.
Pretty much 99% of examples of a 3-4 year old car like this will have been a lease or finance car and go through the same trade channels.
As far as "sale of goods act" is concerned comeback on a 105k mile car will be limited whether it is from a scrapyard or BMW Park Lane as just about anything major can be declared as "reasonable life for the part". Similarly, most warranty companies have exclusions on high mileage cars. This is just part of buying a high mileage car which is why they are cheaper than low mileage ones.
Whether it is a good deal or not is down to the price, if the dealer's markup is low in this case because his overheads are low then it is not necessarily a bad buy. It is all down to the price advantage againt the extra risk (although many a franchised or large dealer can and indeed do go bust and dissappear over night).
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I expressed concern of why its ended up there in the first place as they're generally traded in an re-sold through BMW franchised dealers.
Sorry, that's rubbish. A car like this is highly unlikely to be re-sold through a BMW franchised dealer. Around 60k is the maximum they'll deal with. If part exchanged at a BMW dealer it will be traded out to an independent directly who underwrote it, sent to auction as part of a dealer chain's disposal or sent to auction as part of a BMW finance disposal auction.
The dealer is subject to SoGA whatever he may say - he has to be. That is limited on this sort of mileage car as there are so many getouts but it still applies.
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So you agree a car like this is normally traded in and re-sold through franchised dealers - if it didnt have 105k on it. I dont know much about BMW's, ive never owned one and ive had limited experience with main dealers as i find them rip off merchants so i was speaking generally. When i was trading cars i stuck to things i knew, mostly the blue oval. Im a believer in that a car with high mileage isnt neccessarily useless worthless rubbish which is why i find it hard to relate to the do-it-by-numbers franchised dealers who will go 'oh its done 1k too much, get rid of it'.
Edited by jamie745 on 27/08/2011 at 17:04
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This thread drifted somewhat from the OP, which specifically asked about specialist examination.
For BMW and MB's and the like if you have a good specialist indy then it makes sense to use his services and trust his findings. He will know exactly what to look for, the weak points etc.
Just don't expect this service to be cheap, expect to pay around a couple of hundred pounds plus travelling ex's unless it's literally round the corner, he will after all probably loser half a days other work. I would ask my MB indy to check a car out as he knows them literally inside out, but then i've known him for years, not sure as i'd feel quite so confident asking a relative stranger unless the indy came well recommended through make specific forum or similar.
Would i buy this specific car, yes if my indy said it was a good one and it checked out, because the small dealer in question doesn't offer warranties doesn't mean he's a shyster, far from it, maybe he's fair minded and doesn't want to be seen to 'sell' a worthless warranty.
The medium size long established dealer i bought my MB from 9 years ago told me the warranty he presented with the car wasn't worth the paper it was written on, as are the vast majority of if not all aftermarket warranties IMO, can't fault a man who tells it like it is.
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The medium size long established dealer i bought my MB from 9 years ago told me the warranty he presented with the car wasn't worth the paper it was written on, as are the vast majority of if not all aftermarket warranties IMO, can't fault a man who tells it like it is.
Would agree with that, particulartly on a 100k+ car there are so many "wear and tear" get outs they are worthless. For similar reasons any "protection" you may have any SoGA legislation is also very limited due to the mileage.
The OP does not state the model but, for example, a 2008 330d Coupe with about 40k will be £24-25k at a BMW dealer. A similar car with 80k is likely to be about £13k at an independent dealer working on a small margin. You pays your money and takes your choice but you sure as hell won't get the same car, service or warranty for £13k as you will at £25k. That's life I'm afraid!
As regards the inspection, the BMW service schedule means that the last time it went into a BMW dealer they will have read off the status of when various things next need to be done. I'd have a good look at the history and check what has been done. It might also have a service print. If it has an up-to-date BMW history and has been a lease car beyond the obvious such as worn brakes etc. or bad accident repairs I'm not sure a RAC/AA check will tell you a lot more.
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So you agree a car like this is normally traded in and re-sold through franchised dealers - if it didnt have 105k on it.
If it is a nice example and a good spec/colour then yes it has the potential to be re-sold through a franchised dealer but this one has 105k so isn't.
In most cases these sort of cars are ex-lease ones sold at auciton and, for the same reasons, franchised dealers would not bid for it.
What I am basically saying is that this car ending up at this dealer sounds entirely in line with normal trade pattern.
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