Is it all going a bit far ?
-new discs every time you get new pads.
-cam belt changes on the off-chance it needs one.
-this oil rather than that oil.
-special petrol.
-supermarket vs main garage petrol.
-always warming the car up when you start it before you switch it off again.
And it goes on........
-this was or that wax
-this bulb or that bulb
-endless additives
Well, not me.
My cars get serviced when something doesn't work or they don't run right; they get an oil change if and when they get a service; virtually any noise can be ignored or covered by increased cd player volume and you get used to it in time anyway; the brake discs would need to be in pieces before they got renewed; the punctured tyre gets replaced on its own, the others can get used to it and who gives a stuff what angle the steering wheel is at as long as the thing goes in straight lines, except when you would prefer it turned corners; as long as the car is level and not making bangs, then the suspension is clearly ok; if it gets a wash, which frankly isn't that likely, it'll get the nearest, convenient automatic car wash and be grateful for it; it gets petrol from whichever pump I stopped next to from whichever gas station I happened to be near when the fuel light started flashing; and if I need to start it cold, move it 2 ft and switch it off again it can damn well get over itself and start again when I need it whether the cat likes it or not.
I think we worry too much. Its not like they're worth a groat after 5 years anyway.
And then we get upset with other drivers. I don't care if they keep their foot on the brake in traffic, my pupils are built to protect my retina, I don't mind if they driver slower than I want to, I just overtake them at some point; there's no point in jumping up and down about traffic jams, it only amuse the kids in the next car;
Personalised plates don't bother me, not that I have one; baseball caps backwards look uncomfortable, but they don't bother me. Speed cameras don't bother me, I just drive carefully in their vicinity.
I strongly suspect that two-jags, Tony Blair and the entire police force do not even know I exist and probably are not conspiring against me.
And so on.......
I think the whole world needs to calm down a bit and stop worrying about everything.
|
Is it the whole world or is it just Brits? I was abroad at the weekend (not for the first time!!!) and I have this feeling that they have a much more laid back attitude in general than we do.
I was abroad because SWMBO has always wanted to do Christmas markets. Whether she was impressed or not is beside the point. But the markets were notable because of their laid backness - over 50% of stalls selling food and, of more interest, hot wine. None of the million and one craft or charity stalls that turn out for our local carnivals etc. No Health and Safety officers testing the internal temperature of the burgers on offer. Just people out to have a few drinks with friends...
I drove early 1000 miles over the w/e and never ever saw 1) road rage or 2) traffic jams.
Made me quite envious - I have a (nominally) 9 - 5:30 job which often keeps me busy till 9 or 10 pm for no extra money. The pressure is on to have a respectable looking car, whereas many over there do not seem to give a hoot about the car's appearance. "Things" seem cheaper over there (although I know this is relative to take home pay etc).
I think you are right, British people need to take a look at themselves and just chill a little...
|
|
|
I'm glad you said all that Mark.
Makes me feel a bit less guilty about not having had regular whatevers done to my car in the past!
And the point about other drivers - I guess if we all had the same attitude, roadrage would disappear overnight.
If only people would do as you say - all calm down and stop worrying about things that should not need to be worried about!
HF
|
|
|
Mark,
If your car could talk it would probably ask you for a divorce....
|
If my car asked for a divorce it would get a cuff around the ear and told to get on with being a car.
And anyway, I hate going to the doctors/dentist so I am quite sure that my cars prefer not going to the garage.
And while we're on the subject;
It doesn't have an air-freshener, it doesn't have any bits fitted to it that it wasn't born with; I neither love it nor hate it; I have absolutely no idea what it does to the gallon, on the basis that its going to do it anyway and my knowing about it doesn't make it feel guilty and do a little more; I have no idea what it does 0-60 and it might well be slower than next-doors, I wouldn't know;
I check the tyre pressures when one of them looks flat or the car wanders; I fill the windscreen washer when its empty, and i gets no cleaner, you just leave your windscreen wipers on longer and it scrapes the dirt off; on a cold day I start it, leave it running and go back in for more coffee and another cigarette;
It may well have a warning triangle, I've never looked and goodness knows whether or not it has any tools, I wouldn't use them if it did have. I am sure its got a spare wheel, but I have to admit I've never seen it, or the jack for that matter, its probably under the boot floor;
I have no idea what oil it should use, although I know what it does use and I suspect Tesco sell loads of it; And it gets shopping trolley dings, but so what, you can;t see them through the dirt anyway.
And, touch wood, it hasn't broken down, failed to start or done anything particularly weird and I do *loads* of miles. And my last car was taken over by my cousin and that's still going.
I think cars are a darn sight tougher than we give them credit for.
|
My Polo, 1988, ? miles (odo stopped at 120k or something a year before I bought it for £250) surprised me on its 'death trip' (journey to the scrapyard.)
Someone was tailgating me.
The final straw that caused me to scrap it was when the clutch stiffened again, it wouldn't go over 80, refused to idle and was leaking oil onto the manifold. Heavily. The effect of this was smoke coming from the bonnet when warm and stationary, and clouds of smoke, seemingly from the exhaust, when driven hard.
It managed 60 in 2nd and did not seize despite the temperature gauge entring the red at the next pair of traffic lights.
I think cars can take a lot of abuse but good maintenance will keep performance at its best. I killed the Polo by using Mobil 1 oil after it had ran on crap mineral stuff for its entire life, and then driving 15000 miles without a single oil change. My peugeot, although now Mums (oh dear god), runs really well after 86k and frequent servicing and oil changes in the past and in the year ive had it.
|
|
|
|
You've just reminded me - nearly forgot to tuck Vicky Vectra in for the night, read her a bedtime story (Chitty Chitty Bang Bang) and say goodnight to her. Ovaltine or Horlicks tonight I wonder?
Don't want her being all grumpy with me in the morning now, do I?
|
What a strange name your wife has Dynamic.
HF
|
What a strange name your wife has Dynamic.
Wife? Not enough room in the garage for a car and a wife you know!!
|
Wife? Not enough room in the garage for a car and a wife you know!!
>>
You keep your car in the house???
|
You keep your car in the house???
Yes. Don't all males who love their cars?
|
|
|
|
Bad hair day, Mark?
;-)
Seriously, I agree with what you say about mollycoddling cars. I regard them as a tin box to cart me around. As long as it meets the main criteria then that's ok.
I don't indulge in main dealer servicing, I mainly do my own. I don't buy expensive "prestige" cars, so I don't give a monkey's that it hasn't got BMW/VW/Audi/Merc stamps all over its service book to tempt the next dealer to even look at it. In fact, I've never had a dealer ask to see the service book before trade in.
I tend to buy a car (used) for about £7K to £8K and run it until it's worth about £1500 - ie it still looks reasonable but is really a banger.
One thing I don't want, though - and that's an unreliable car, so regular servicing according to the "book" seems to work for me. And I don't want an unsafe car either, so if something is obviously needing attention then it gets it.
As for your other examples of motoring paranoia, I've got my own, and I keep them to myself. What life has taught me, so far, is that if you display a weakness (or a dislike) then many people exploit it and persecute you. He who walked in sandals called it "turning the other cheek", I think.
HAND
Ian Cook
|
Good subject from our respected agent provocateur.
There's a happy medium here, as Mark knows full well of course!
A lot depends on what the car is and how keen you are. For me, almost any French, Italian or Japanese car is something to go from A to B with varying degrees of economy, comfort and reliability. There are very few of these that I could get enthusiastic about to the extent of mollycoddling (what a lovely word that is!).
The cars I have mollycoddled include my old Triumph 2500 Mark II, which would otherwise have been long gone. I badly desired one of these when they were first introduced and when I managed to buy one I pampered it like no other. For instance, I dismantled all the suspension parts when the car was less than three years old, then painted them and waxoyled all the screw threads before rebuilding. It is now 31 years old but still gives me pleasure to maintain it and drive it.
My other car, a 1992 BMW 525i Touring, is an even greater pleasure to drive and is so well designed that I don't mind working on it. But, unlike the Triumph, it gets 'preventative care' rather than full-blown mollycoddling.
What I cannot understand is the absolute neglect that a lot of people 'lavish' on their car. Most cars represent a lot of money and neglect makes no economic sense in the long run; neither does it help reliability.
|
|
|
|
|
If there was a 'Royal Society for the Protection of Cars' I'd have been done for gross cruelty years ago ;-)
|
Excellent!
I am new this website, having never known it existed before I fell upon it by accident. I know NOTHING about cars when I popped on here and eventually bought my purple diesal about 8 weeks ago.
I am being absolutely honest here, but since coming to H.J., I have actually become nervous of how much damage Im doing to the car and how much preventative work I should do.
I was beginning to worry about getting the bestest, most expensive oil and Im 79 miles over 5,000 miles since it was last serviced and it has really started pray on my mind. I've been acting like Im driving on borrowed time and that any minute now, the engine is going to seize.
Mind you, I do want this car to last a while and I am driving a lot of miles at the moment, s'why i got a deisel. BUT I must admit, I think I've been getting things a little out of proportion. I've even had it valetted each month to keep the rust away; its only 3 1/2 years old and gleaming!
Cheers Mark - it is good to know that some of you guys on here are actually like the run-of-the-mill drivers. I could never thank you all enough for the help I got when buying my Mondeo and subsequently, but I can take a sigh of relief that maybe I am doing enough to be a good car owner!
Patricia
x
|
|
|
|
.... and HF would have been done for serial automotive abuse ;-)
|
.... and HF would have been done for serial automotive abuse ;-)
>>
>:-0
|
|
Don't deny it HF - The evidence lies in your garage ;-)
|
Don't deny it HF - The evidence lies in your garage ;-)
>>
You know too much. There are some things which should never be mentioned here.... ;)
HF
|
|
|
|
Lets be honest Mark, we're all anal retentive geeks spouting hot air about cars. If we enjoyed interesting lives or weren't chained to our desks all day we wouldn't be logged on to this site would we?
|
Well, I read the backroom even when I'm not in the office. However, it is certainly nice to have something interesting to read in those idle moments.
And I don't think that hot air is spouted, so much as that I really think we worry about our cars too much.
For example, if I am going to worry about which oil, as opposed to how much oil, is in my car then I am ignoring a whole bunch of things more likely to harm it.
And I don;t drive that fast these days, I'm too lazy, but when I used to thrash around in unserviced cars that *never* got any maintenance and only fixed if it was really neccessary, I can't say that the cars let me down that often or did noticably less miles.
Now, clearly we want them to be safe and reliable but, especially when considering second hand values these days, does it really make that much difference.
The oil argument for example; I wonder how much difference it makes ? Is it the difference between an engine good for 150k as opposed to 100k ? If so, what is the difference in value between two such cars ? 50 quid given their probable age ?
The worry and the increased expense doesn't seem worth it really.
Ok some things such as cambelts are potentially extremely damaging, but oil ? It all works, even if some is better than others.
I can see taxi drivers, for example, who rack up the miles at a ludicrous rate should probably worry - but I do about 35k a year, and I'll get 4 years or so out of a car, if I stay in one country long enough. Its worth naff all at the end of that whatever state the engine is in.
|
|
|
|
Hi Mark,
I actually agree with RichieW in that if we weren't all here discussing these issues the forum would get somewhat quieter!
However, although perhaps to the extreme, I think you're right in many cases.
Some of us have names for our cars and many of us shout at the wretched thing when there is a problem with it, almost treating it like something alive! But there are probably more similarities than we give the car credit for. Basically, cars are like people...
Many of us treat our bodies very badly - drinking, smoking, lack of exercise, unhealthy food, sedentary lifestyle. This can be likened to crap petrol, poor servicing, frequent short journeys in our cars etc etc. Now, in a lot of cases we miraculously get away with this, much the same as a lot of cars do - and often it'll be down to our genetics and what we're susceptible to. Bernie down the road smoked 40 a day all his life and is knocking on a hundred yet Harry died 20 years ago of similar abuse. Same as you get a good car or something like a Toyota Corolla and the thing simply will not die, however hard you try.
But same as look at the people who take meticulous care of themselves - good diets, exercise, healthy living. Sure, a good deal more of them will make it into old age but there are still plenty who will die young or of something they'd been trying to avoid - Just the same as that tenderly looked after car with 3k oil changed still managed to have a massive engine failure even though you lavished huge amounts of car and money into it.
Treat your cars as you see fit and however makes you happy. There's a good chance that either way it won't make a *massive* amount of difference!
Happy motoring all...
Dan J
|
>>I actually agree with RichieW in that if we weren't all here discussing these issues the forum would get somewhat quieter!
Let us be completely clear, that was NOT my point at all. I don't want it quieter and I enjoy the debate, which is why I started this thread.
But I am aware that I do not do even what I preach, never mind the stuff that everybody else recommends.
|
|
p.s. *and* I think we underestimate the strength and tolerance of our cars.
|
p.s. *and* I think we underestimate the strength and tolerance of our cars.
Agreed, some cars can take loads of abuse, but some self distruct after seamingly minor problems, hence everyone's paranoia.
Sites like this at least forwarn of impending doom for your model and help to keep the imformed clear of lemons. Top Gear and co could do with some of that.
As for oil, my old Pug 309 is at least 12K into it's 4.99 tesco multigrade sludge but changing the oil would massively increase it's value (likewise filling the tank) and I could not recoup it.
|
|
|
|
Let us be completely clear, that was NOT my point at all. I don't want it quieter and I enjoy the debate, which is why I started this thread.
Yep - I think we all knew that Mark! What I meant was, if *we* all gave up discussing these things the forum'd be a quiter place... :)
Itchy trigger finger today?
|
|
|
I didn't for one second mean to imply we should stop posting. Just if we take a step back for a second and look at ourselves as Mark has done then it all seems a bit sad really. I have horrid visions of my friends finding my posts on this site and quoting them back to me in the pub verbatim.
Hell, we all enjoy posting, it's legal and I guess that any other single topic forum would read just as absurd to any other uninterested observer.
|
I tend to agree with Mark.
I love my car, but hate having oily hands, spending time in dealer receptions, cleaning it etc. Only exception is tyre pressures - I do check these, partly because Mrs B was once involved in accident involving a vehicle (not hers) with a blow-out.
On the other hand.... did I read somewhere a comment from a fleet manager at Lex that some expensive company cars are being returned with broken engines because the oil pressure is never, ever checked?
|
peterb
Yes, there is a tendency not to open the bonnet, encouraged by the fact that :
1. Oil consumption is so low nowdays that it often does not need topping up between services
2. Practically nothing in there is adjustable by the owner-driver
3. Half the components are unrecognisable other than to a trained mechanic
|
|
|
|
|
|
As this is a motoring forum, it is bound to be frequented by those with a generally higher regard for cars than the general population. And it also stereotypically proves that it is mainly the male population that is preoccupied by this subject.
I thought it would an intersting exercise to find out what the female poulation is interested in, and looked at the following site which is mainly frequented by them.
forums.handbag.com/
For the 35 or so categories listed there, there have been about 250,000 (yes - quarter million) posts. Motoring and - surpisingly (to me) - weddings, family, shopping and homes are quite LOW down in the popularity stakes. The second most popular (after general) category was "relationships" but some of the threads there
forums.handbag.com/forumdisplay.php?s=ac840298959c...0
have to be seen to be believed! Quite a good read.
I think the whole world needs to calm down a bit and stop worrying about everything. >> I think they must have read Mark's mind as that half of the world is certainly not worrying about cars. Their motoring threads are mainly to do driving - i.e. passing the test and getting insurance to drive, rather than about the car.
|
As this is a motoring forum, it is bound to be frequented by those with a generally higher regard for cars than the general population. And it also stereotypically proves that it is mainly the male population that is preoccupied by this subject.
Hi, MB,
I've looked at your links, and can only say that, although in the minority group on this site, I would far rather be here than there!
Sure, a lot of women prefer to talk about such things as are on your 'handbag' site. I know that and I understand that. I am not the same, I would prefer to be on a site where i can learn and be educated about things I would like to know more about. I will never be a car expert, but at the same time i am learning some valuable things here, and putting them into practice too.
As such, I would choose HJ anytime over bleedin' handbags!
HF
|
|
|
|
Great post Mark. There was a thread in a similar vein that I found in the archives that bears repeating:-
"Am I alone in getting fed up with the continual self satisfied crowing of those who run cars with X zillion miles on the clock, change the oil every 100 miles with DuckhamsSuperShell semi - synthetic oil purchased for 2.294FF a litre from a supermarket only 27 Km from Calais.
Anyone who isn't as wise or frugal as these sages is just plain mad.
You are all very very clever and we admire you greatly. I bet you know where to buy ex MOD wartime stocks of toilet paper of the greaseproof variety, which flushes beautifully even with the toilet cistern filled with bricks to save water."
With some justification we accuse Manufacturers/Garages of including unnecessary and costly items in the service schedules - changing brake fluid every 2 years is a good example. Yet if they lengthen oil change or cam belt change intervals they are also condemned.
|
I have to assume that either Mark doesn't pay for his motoring, or earns LOTS of cash (or both!).
Some things I agree with - I never wash my car (unless I can't see out, or get in without getting filthy), I would never buy any 'accesories'.
However, I always make a point of changing the oil regularly (I am an engineer, and can't bear to think what I am doing to the poor defenceless engine!) and checking things like brakes etc. Replacing when worn. I also operate at the 'banger' end of the market - running 1k - 2k cars into the ground. Regular maintenance here prevents ending up on the hard shoulder - a frayed alternator belt is 20 mins work, but saves 2 hours in the rain with SMBO glaring at you on the M6 hard shoulder.....
Some of Mark's comments show somewhat of a disregard for his and other road users' safety! Brakes are critical, so why begrudge a new set of £30 discs?
Still, each to his own! I think it is testament to vehicle designers that cars will cover 30 - 40k miles / year with little or no maintenance and keep going for as long as they do!
Richard 'Oily hands' W
|
I have to assume that either Mark doesn\'t pay for his motoring, or earns LOTS of cash (or both!).
I don\'t pay for my normal car, although I do pay for the others. And as for the cash, I get enough to keep the baliff from the door and the odd crust of bread on the table.
Goodness knows how either of those two points are relevant though. My point is it seems to be unneccessary and over the top worrying and millycoddling leading to a spending of too much cash.
However, I always make a point of changing the oil regularly
I believe I differentiated several times between changing the oil, topping up the oil, and worrying as to whether or not it has the latest, greatest, gold-plated stuff.
People recommend changing oil at 5000 miles ? I can\'t see its neccessary. And my question was, what diffrence does it make after 150,000 miles anyway? 50 quid difference to the value of the car ? Because I don\'t believe it is relevant whether or not you use the normal recommended oil or the over the top higher quality stuff. It\'ll get to that mileage anyway. Ditto whether you change the oil at 5,000 or 20,000.
>>Regular maintenance here prevents ending up on........
Fair enough, but I still think we take it too far.
Some of Mark\'s comments show somewhat of a disregard for his and other road users\' safety!
Don\'t be silly.
>Brakes are critical, so why begrudge a new set of £30 discs?
I wouldn\'t if it was neccessary. But is it ? New discs at 20,000 miles because the pads are worn ? What are you saying, that it will not brake anymore without new discs. Stuff and nonsense. Of course if the discs are really damaged, but I reckon most of the time its pure paranoia.
I think it is testament to vehicle designers that cars will cover 30 - 40k miles / year with little or no maintenance and keep going for as long as they do!
My point precisely.
|
|
|
|
I’m sure nobody has missed the irony of this post. I for one would love to join in but a few issues hold me back:
1. Since the inlaws discovered Toyota I have been determined to prove that other cars can be reliable no matter how much car-stress-related illnesses I have to endure.
2. Listening to the inside of my old Ford Orion Diesel go all spaghetti-like when the cambelt snapped despite regular servicing at a Ford main dealer and discovering that Ford just didn’t want to know.
3. Along comes HJ in the telegraph and subsequently here and tells me that Ford are absolutely right and its my fault that their servicing schedule means nothing and that I should be changing the oil twice every day with totally synthetic single malt super delux oil, using millers additives (which I’m still trying to find in a shop within 100 miles), have a stock of cambelts to swap as often as I change my underwear etc etc...
I for one have total car-breakdown paranoia AND I’M PROUD OF IT!
Thankyou HJ for changing my life
Splodgeface
|
Splodgeface, just our of interest, did the cambelt snap before the service schedule said to change it?
I personally tend to molly-coddle the Fiesta, it's my pride and joy so it gets plenty of attention, but I wouldn;t say that I'm fanatical about it.
I did however manage to wash it today, and can finally see through the side windows again, I know it'll be filthy again by the weekend, but it was nice to see the alloys shining brightly again and remind myself what colour it was under the muck. :)
I'm certain it ran a little better after I cleaned it as well... :)
Blue
|
>Splodgeface, just our of interest, did the cambelt snap before the service schedule said to change it?
changed in accordance with the service schedule - it would have been at the service (and mileage) they said it would need changing - whatever that was - this was back in 1994.
I'm not fanatical about my car either, just concerned that I'm doing the right thing bank balance wise! If I were a lucky company car driver I'd enjoy thrashing cars about. As it is, I constantly ask: what age car? Petrol/diesel? Service interval? When do I sell? and so on. Drive myself bonkers sometimes.
Current car (diesel) done 156K, worth nothing and worth lots to me for as long as it doesn't cost me anything (except oil changes etc.)
Splodgeface
|
|
|
|
