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Mon 30 May 2011 19:38

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - mattie_uk

Hi all

I'm after a little bit of advice on some new cars we're thinking of buying - these are as replacements for an ageing Audi A3 T-sport (200K and still going, although perhaps not for long!) and a far too big Citroen Zsara Picasso (60K on an 02 plate, decent but just too big).

We really want to get down to 1 car, but work and home situations mean we need 2, with one as a ‘spare’ for occasional commute and around-town use. Therefore, the thinking is for a little run-around if the Micra/Fox/Polo/Ka scale for the shopping and a workhorse such as a Golf/Leon/Astra for commuting.

We've been to a few car warehouses to see what's there, and found a 2008 plate new model Ka with around 13K miles at £5.5K and a Fiat Bravo 2007 plate, just under 40K for 5.6K. This is the 1.9 multijet diesel.

The question is really to do with the Bravo, it's not a car I'm overly familiar with and a bit of reading around suggests the build and the ride isn't great (at least, the handling isn't, although ride comfort on motorways sounds OK) so I’m not convinced we’re making a sensible choice. I'd also prefer the 1.6 diesel as it's a much cheaper tax band, but there's few about and there's quite a premium as it does so well on fuel and tax.

For some reason there’s a dearth of old-style astras, which surprises me as I thought loads would be outed as the new model would make them relatively obsolete. I’d be more than happy with a 3 or 4 year old old-style astra, especially more economical ones.

As we're limited in budget I can’t stretch to something like a Golf unless I juggle the options (and even then it’d be a very basic model), hence I was wondering if it's worth a bit of a compromise on the runaround to stretch the budget on the workhorse. I’d also like something a little bit more enjoyable for weekends away, happy for that to be a little hatchback (i.e,. the runaround) as it’ll be two of us plus luggage. In saying that, economy (financial as well as fuel) is more important than zip.

Any ideas for a pair of cars that would meet the above needs, or simply some comments upon our provisional choices, would be much appreciated. Budget really is hard-set at 11K, and even then we could do with pruning – ideally getting it to 9 (I know, tough ask!) would make everything easier.

Cheers

Edited by mattie_uk on 30/05/2011 at 19:38

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Mon 30 May 2011 19:46

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - unthrottled

hence I was wondering if it's worth a bit of a compromise on the runaround to stretch the budget on the workhorse

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Mon 30 May 2011 19:52

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - mattie_uk

I assume you mean the quoted line contains the idea I should run with.

Any thoughts on which cars to investigate? Maybe the 1.6 Bravo, any ideas for runarounds?

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Mon 30 May 2011 19:53

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - unthrottled

hence I was wondering if it's worth a bit of a compromise on the runaround to stretch the budget on the workhorse

Yes! Unless you really need to, don't replace both cars at once. If there's little value left in the Audi, just keep running it until an uneconomic problem crops up. A car worth only £1000 is very financially liberating since the most expensive fault can only cost £1000-the value of the car.

Well driven cars can trundle on longer than you might think.

Sorry, this website isn't working very well!

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Mon 30 May 2011 20:19

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Boulder2k9

What unthrottled says it true, keep the Audi until it falls to the ground. I would then recommend that you spend 7-7.5k on a nice comfy car for the commute leaving around 3k to spend on another small car when the Audi finally falls, you would be suprised how much car 3k can get you!

Good luck!

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Mon 30 May 2011 20:45

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - unthrottled

159-I would agree entirely. However OP doesn't really state what the duties of the cars are. If the 'runaround' is going to be used for hauling lots of kids/gear around, then the Audi A3 isn't ideal. On the other hand, if the 'decent' car is going to be used for long distance family trips, it needs to be sizeable in a way that a dedicated commuter car isn't. Either way, OP should avoid getting lumbered with two average cars that do nothing particularly well!

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Mon 30 May 2011 21:43

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - mattie_uk

Hi all, thanks for the replies, most useful!

To clarify, we have no kids but will occasionally (once every month at most) cart the nephew and neice about - we would use the 'workhorse' for this. The runaround is for when one of us needs a second car. Although we very occasionaly need a second car for leisure/home-life, the issue really is with work - both of us have to visit out-of-town areas at pain-in-the-derrier times, which public transport sadly fails to service. We currently liftshare where possible in the audi unless one of us has to travel elsewhere and they'll take the Citroen (the person with the longer drive wiltake the Audi). It's probably only needed 2 or 3 times a week, and the maximum - and I stress maximum - distance would bea 35 mileish each way commute plus trips to B&Q etc, so a small car would suffice (as long as we can fit some garden compost and some tins of paint in!)

The point of the Citroen was it can be used like a van, but we have never actually needed this facility once we'd moved house! At present, it's a pretty bad fit for what we currently need. Therefore, I'm keen to chop this in for something that uses as small an amount of fuel as possible, costs little to tax, is cheap to insure and doesn't cost the earth to buy - it'll not be used that regualrly, so anything decenty is buring money. The problem in keeping the Audi for such a use is that it's expensive to insure and tax,and is pretty poor on fuel around town and in traffic-bound commuting.

On the other hand, the Audi is a like-for-like replacement, but ideally with better tax/fuel/insurance.

The points raised in the replies have been useful, I'll have a think about keeping one of the cars for a little bit longer. The only thing is, I'm not sure which one!

eta: apologies for poor typing skills, for some reason google chrome's spellcheck doesn't flag up typos!

Edited by mattie_uk on 30/05/2011 at 21:45

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Mon 30 May 2011 22:51

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - madf

faced with a similar need for a runaround, we went for soemthing small and unwanted and unloved..

Viz a Chevrolet Matiz. £2.5k buys a 5 year old 40k miles FSH one ...Relaible , easy to drive and cheap to run. Zero street cred...

Edited by madf on 30/05/2011 at 22:52

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Tue 31 May 2011 01:25

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Avant

I agree with the others about keeping the Audi until something goes expensively wrong - this is your occasional car.

For a workhorse, to replace the Picasso, you can't beat a Skoda Octavia: Golf mechanicals but cheaper. If this is too big (it's probably as long as the Picasso but narrower) there's always the Fabia, or the SEAT Leon.

Edited by Avant on 01/06/2011 at 00:07

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Tue 31 May 2011 13:58

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - filer

I have a Fiat Bravo Sport 2.0 Multijet 2009 & it has been awful. I would really advise not going near this car. It is basically a Stilo in a posh frock. Mine has been in to the dealers at least 20 times, so far the ASR sensors have been replaced, the steering wheel, as the leather split, the indicators as it would not lock. The clock spring failed throwing on the airbag light. The gear change cables froze, meaning it would not change gear in the winter. The EGR failed, the DPF blocks continually, the DMF is failing, the gearbox whines & the paintwork is made of cheese. The reviews on Whatcar are pretty damning, stick with what you have. If I have not convinced you, take a test drive, try cornering, then drive on a bit of rough road, then try the brakes, I wish I had before ordering.

Edited by filer on 31/05/2011 at 13:59

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Tue 31 May 2011 15:06

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - mattie_uk

Thanks for comments, and sorry to hear of your rotten run of luck with the car!

I must admit I was aware of historical FIAT build problems but assumed in this day and age they were mostly fixed.

I'd be interested to hear of anyone else's experiences with the Bravo - simply to see if filer's problems with the car are a one-off (they're bad enough if they are) or the model itself is destined to be a pain.

I'm quite keen on one as they were comfortable for both me and the missus, which is quite rare for a car, and they seem reasonably priced - as ever, there may be very good reasons for these low prices!

Edited by mattie_uk on 31/05/2011 at 15:07

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Tue 31 May 2011 16:24

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - filer

Mattie

The What Car readers reviews gives you an insight onto Bravo ownership.

My O/H has a Picasso & it rides& handles hugely better than the Bravo. However every time the Bravo broke I was given a Panda Multijet & these are good, for a small car they are excellent, and good on the motorway too, comfortable, handle ok unless you get a bit enthusiastic, well built & good to live with. So for your small car, the Panda is a good bet, just avoid the Bravo!!

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Tue 31 May 2011 19:06

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - mattie_uk

So, if we were to keep the Audi as an ocassional use and went for a replacement workhorse, are there any recommendations?

I've seen a few Volvo S40s coming in at around £7.5K, would these be a good bet? Any particular model, things to avoid etc?

Apols for noddy questions, I've generally inherited cars so I've never had cause to actually choose one!

Edited by mattie_uk on 31/05/2011 at 19:07

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Tue 31 May 2011 19:35

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Boulder2k9

There are plenty of cars out there and that is a pretty healthy budget!#

S40 is a lovely car but suprisingly small on the inside, the punchy yet economical 1.6D is the one to go for, 45-50mpg should be easy enough. Not sure if there are too many available at that price but the faster 2.0D is more common. The leather seats are fantastic too if you can get them, as is the interior in general, perfect for that commute each day!

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2854758.htm

Edited by 159man on 31/05/2011 at 19:44

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Wed 1 Jun 2011 00:11

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Avant

Not noddy questions at all, Mattie - that's one of the things this forum is here for, and for me personally (and as a moderator I have to read all the threads!) the threads about cars are much more interesting than the ones on speed limits.

Tell us what you think of the Octavia: similar size to the V40 but uses the space better. It would seem to tick most of your boxes.

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Thu 2 Jun 2011 19:19

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - mattie_uk

Thanks Avant and all

A bit of a disappointment, the Volvo S40 I'd found was actually mislabeled on the website, it's the petrol version and not the 1.6D I was aiming at (I thought 7K seemed a bit cheap for an 07 plate!) The disels are a lot, lot more than equivalent petrols. I had a look at Octavias, they're also a bit more than I'd want to spend - shame, as both Volvo and Skoda look exactly the ticket! I might keep an eye out for slightly older versions of both, to see if I can get them a little bit cheaper.

As an aside, can anyone give me an idea of how trade-in values are calculated? The dealer was, perhaps not unreasonably, a bit recitent over the phone. Are they so low it's better to try to sell privately?

Edited by mattie_uk on 02/06/2011 at 19:19

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Fri 3 Jun 2011 00:38

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Boulder2k9

I think though that having looked at many online the 1.6D seems to be more expensive secondhand han the 2.0D for some reason, the car I showed in the link isn't half bad and there are more out there!

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Fri 3 Jun 2011 00:50

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - unthrottled

An older car (eg your picasso or Audi) is of no interest to a dealer. It'll simply be chucked into auction and sold at a loss. You will always get better value selling privately. Pitch the price right and you won't have much trouble.

n.b. Beware of dealers that offer an overly generous part ex-you will always pay for it on the car you are buying. It's the cost to change that matters, not trade-in or percentage 'discount'!

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Fri 3 Jun 2011 22:07

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Lord Laughton

How important is milage to you? You can pick up a decent BMW 320D or A4 avant for the 7.5 k budget you are quoting. May well have higher than average milage on as it will have been a lease or company car but should have had all services and mechanicals done on time? Why not sell the audi privatly. I know that there are plenty of Poles, Latvians and Lithuanians who love their old Audi's and will pay top dollar. Many of them run their own used car sales where they send the cars they buy back to their home countries. I am reliably informed their is quite a market for them.

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Fri 3 Jun 2011 22:11

Ford Ka, Fiat Bravo - Two car family - trade-offs - Bobbin Threadbare

I second what someone said about keeping your Audi until it falls to bits if you're happy with it. You won't get much for either but change the car you think is unwieldy.

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