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Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - jojo39

I bought the above car two months ago.

2001 model, petrol 1.4 engine with 75k miles on clock.

MOT history reveals it did approx 12k miles a year for the first four years of it life then under 5k miles per year for the last five years. The last two years, it did under 3000 miles as previous owner was working abroad and the car was parked up.

When I bough it I took it to a local garage and had a full service - air and fuel filters changed, new spark plugs, oil change.

About a fortnight later then emissions warning light came on. I took it to garage and they did a diagnostic which came back as an engine misfire.

They said it was likely to have been a bit of dirt in the fuel which caused it, they fuel cleaner in it, reset the light and advised me to use Shell for fuel.

For the last month, I have only used Shell petrol and kept a float of about a quarter of a tank in it.

Today the warning light is back on, just constantly lit, not flashing.

The only other comment I would make about the car in general is that I notice that between 3rd and 4th gear change, the car is a bit juddery (just slightly) like a bit of a power loss and doesn't fee smooth. It seems to come out of that when I'm at 30mph or above, ie in 4th or 5th gear. If I'm in 2nd or 3rd it just feels a bit sluggish and not running nicely. As I said, it's only subtle so a passenger in the car wouldnt notice.

I have googled the warning light and so far it's come up with: coil packs, lambada sensors and egr valves.

The reason I bought this car was I had a problem with my previous car with engine management light which could never be solved and I wanted to get away from all that sort of worry, but looks like I've managed to get a problem car again.

Just wanted suggestions and ideas - and is it safe to drive with it on?

Thanks a lot.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - unthrottled

They said it was likely to have been a bit of dirt in the fuel which caused it, they fuel cleaner in it, reset the light and advised me to use Shell for fuel.

Surprise, surprise, it didn't fix the problem. What rotten diagnostics!

If the car is misfiring, it needs to be sorted otherwise you'll overheat the cat and require a replacement.

Engines care about load and RPM, not road speed. It would be helpful if you could say under what engine conditions the problem occurs ie "2000RPM full load etc."

I think a good start would be asking a different garage to check the emissions and find out what is in the exhaust ie too much O2, CO, HC etc. If there is too much oxygen, we can look at exhaust leaks, lambda sensor etc. Only after that has been ahem-exhausted! would it be sensible to look further upstream. I think if the EGR valve was stuck open you would havea noticeable problem at idle.

Edited by unthrottled on 30/05/2011 at 15:22

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - jojo39

sorry, I wasn't sure what you meant regarding full load - I think the rev counter is around 20 - 30 when it goes a bit juddery.

thank you for the other advice. I think the exhaust itself looks quite old but doesnt sound like it's blowing.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - unthrottled

Full load is where you press the accelerator down to the point where the car won't pull any harder.

To test the exhaust, with the engine running, get someone to block the tailpipe end with a rag, while you stand over the engine bay. If you hear a hissing near the engine bay-there's a leak! A leak near the back of the exhaust isn't important.

Failing coil packs often manifest themselves at about the 2000-3000RPM range under heavy load.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - jojo39

Thank you.

I took it for a run again last night, seems to be round the 2000-3000 revs it feels a bit shaky.

I took it on the motorway and once it gets to top speed it seems to drive fine - it just to me seems a bit sluggish getting to max speed and not very nippy at lower speeds, although it starts first time and isn't cutting out.

I hope I haven't done any damage by doing this, was just trying to blast off any dirt etc. The light it still on. Trying to get hold of a different auto electrician to look at it.

Someone said it's probably because I've bought a car that only did a couple of thousand miles a year, it's probably gunked up the injectors or something :o((

I didn't realise it had done a low mileage in the past five years - it's ten years old and done 76000, so I thought it was 7k a year but turns out most of the mileage was done in the first 5 years of its life.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - jojo39

UPDATE

Autoelectrician was at a loss about my car.

Apparently this model has two cats, one in the manifold and one on the outside. He examined the physical condition of both and his opinion was that (looking at the bits he can see), they don't need replacing.

I asked about oxygen sensors but he said it's unlikely as the only error code that shows is the cat not performing properly. He said there's a very small leak in the exhaust but that's near the tailpipe so it wouldnt effect the cat.

He's switched off light and I got the price of a cat (genuine part) is around £500 - and thats for one, and presumably would have to replace two!!

I've monitored the running of my car.

The only thing I'm noticing is this strange "lumpiness" when in 3rd gear, around 25mph. Once I get into 4th and driving up to 30mph, car runs OK.

The car idles OK. It also runs fine from 0 - 20 mph. It's just when the revs hit around 2000rpm and the speed is over 20mph but under 30mph that the car feels like it's jerking a bit.

Don't want to really get rid of the car, it's got 10 months mot and is in lovely condition but I'm dreading the light coming back on. Although saying that, whatever problem was there before causing it to come on is still there as haven't had any repair work done on it.

Why does the light take a few weeks to come back on if there's a fault there all the time??

Was going to ask my mechanic to do a few small jobs on it just to try and eliminate it that way possibly. The following ideas are from info I've googled - could anyone else suggest if they are worth doing or not. If anyone thinks they could solve the problem with my car, I would bring it to them - I'm near Chester.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing:

Cleaning throttle body.

Cleaning breather hose.

Checking spark plug settings - new ones were put in when the car had a major service when I bought it.

Ignition coil.

Can't think of other things I could try which aren't too expensive. It's quite subtle when it does the jumpy thing - my partner has driven it and he didn't notice, but it's definetely there and always around the same point.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - jojo39

only other thing I notice when I'm driving it is a faint electrical type buzzing sound, one of those sounds thats quite faint but always there in the background.

none of my passengers have noticed it, but wonder if that could have anything to do with my problem.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - Big John

Faint buzzing sound is probably the fuel pump.

Does it sometimes make the noise briefly when you unlock/open the drivers door? Many cars now automatically fire up the fuel pump when you open the door in readiness for starting.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - Big John

You really need a diagnostic check to read the error code that has put the light on.

The EGR valve can put the light on but if it sticks open you will have a poor tick-over or if it sticks shut it will run fine but eventually log "insufficient flow".

These engines can also suffer engine breather blockages - usually causing increased oil consumption (pushed oil past valve seals) but this doesn't usually cause a misfire.

If the Lambda sensor is out of tolerance or you have a hole in the exhaust you will probably fail MOT emissions test.

Coil packs seems to be a problem with these (is it the 16V?) causing strange misfires. The coil pack should be of a "wasted spark" design containing two coils each one supplying a spark for two cylinders. I.e. if you get problems with a coil it should affect two cylinders. At tick-over with the door open momentarily floor the throttle and listen carefully - if it briefly sounds like a 2cv then it is definitely the coil pack. If it is the coil pack change ASAP as in some circumstances it can flash back through to the CPU and cause very expensive damage.

N.B. As of 2012 you will fail an MOT with the engine management light illuminated even if the emmisions are fine!

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - unthrottled

Stumbling/misfiring at high load/low RPM is a classic sign of coil pack insulation breakdown. It's an annoying problem because the multimeter is a fat lot of use at detecting this so it can be a bit of diagnosis by substitution.

£500 seems a bit steep for a cat.

Volkswagen Polo 1.4 Petrol 2001 - Emissions Warning Light Problem - havelet

Probably too late to contribute meaningfully but I have had a similar problem for months - finally diagnosed as the coil pack by my 'round the corner' garage. No warning light, jsut juddering at 22mph/3000 + revs, and two weeks at the VW dealer while they investigated the driveshaft/gear box/engine cylinders. Luckily only got charged for a fuel pump when they asked me to take it away!