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ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

ok I'll put this as simply and short as I can without leaving vital information. Today I received a notice of intended prosecution for

1) driving without due care and attention

2)leaving the scene of an accident.

It was apparently in a local public car park we use a lot and happened on the 11th april. The letter states "your vehicle has allegedly been involved in these offences". We were indeed at the car park on that day but we are confused as nothing happened whilst there did not even come close to another car so there was definitely no accident and cant see where this has come from. Also the letter states it was at 11am the incident occurred. However in the town there are only 2 places we go to and I found the receipt for both of these for that day and the first receipt was at 12.11pm. this means that it would have been nearly 12pm at least when we got to the car park so it happened an hour before we were there. Trouble is we cant prove that because not expecting this to happen we cleaned the car out and binned all the parking tickets. Now I am really worried about whats going to happen as we havent done anything yet seem to be getting the blame for this.

I have sent the police force a letter explaining the situation the same as here and also asked for photographic evidence as they dont say what the accident was and also to see why it has come up as our car. The only explanations I can think of are someone has put a registration number down wrong and its come up as our car or someone has cloned our plates (hence I want to see pics as our car has some distinguishing features)

I would really appreciate some legal advice here as I nearly had a heart attack when I opened that letter and I have enough stress already so this is tipping me over the edge.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - jamie745

Im not a legal expert, im sure LucyBC can advise you correctly but all i would say is if it wasnt your car then you dont need to worry. Its up to them to prove it was, its not up to you to prove it wasnt. The last time i looked we ran on Innocent until proven Guilty in this country.

I doubt its a wrong registration number, as what are the chances of someone writing a reg down wrong yet it happens to be almost the same as your car, with a similair number plate, in the same area, in a place you go to often and it occured an hour before you got there? Not very likely. So i would say someone has taken down your reg for a specific reason, and with a Ford Escort being (still, fantastically) a common car on British roads its ideal for pulling a scam on. Im sure you've seen all the recent reports about faked personal injury claims, insurance companies giving details to claims management companies, those same companies encouraging people to claim for an accident they didnt have etc.

I think you were closer with the idea of cloned plates, someone local, has a similair car, clones the plates (not difficult to get plates made up online if you know where to go). Thats probably whats happened.

Or another possibility is can you think of anybody who would have some sort of grudge against you who might want to make your life difficult?

And if you can have a neighbour confirm your car was still at home (or some sort of witness to prove your car was wherever it was at 11am) that'll be very helpful, but ultimatley its up to whoever's done this to prove it was your car and that it was there.

My advice, wait and see what HJ's legal mind has to say but just relax, if you didnt do it then nobody can prove you did.

Edited by jamie745 on 05/05/2011 at 23:13

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

cheers jamie

I honestly cant remember where we were at that time but know we cant have been in the car park because like I said the town is honestly rubbish and the only 2 places we ever go Ive got the receipts for. I know for a fact there is a car identical to mine that goes around the area and we've seen it a fair bit so know its local. think its the same year as mine as well.

I just thought that reg plate could have been taken down wrong by 1 digit or something or the person reported it just said its a green escort and N reg, didnt know if the police went by numberplate only and found my car from the number plate the witness or whoever reported it gave. Just wondering if it was someone who had no idea about cars they wouldnt know the make and model and just go by the number plate.

I'll wait for their response the letter regarding pictures of the alleged incident. The fact that they say alleged makes me think they have no proof and someone has just reported it. Cant think of anyone that would hold a grudge although as I told my dad one possibility I thought about was that someone's hit a car or something and then seen our car got the reg number and pinned it on us. I dont know, all I know is we havent done anything and sure we werent there at that time so really confused.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - LucyBC

Someone has probably reported an accident to the police whereby they may allege that you bumped another car and left the scene (commonly called bump and run). The police often repond to these with a threat to bring forward charges for due care and attention, failure to stop and failure to report. Their priority at this stage will to be the "request to provide information as to who was driving" and they will not have yet established the facts as to the case.

These cases come about in a number of ways:

It may be that someone - usually not the owner of the other car - witnessed, or believed they witnessed a low speed collision and then advised the other driver of the registration plate. They will then often go to the police for the purpose of obtaining the other party's details and the police will often respond as above. In those circumstances the police can often be persuaded to withdraw the charges if there is no damage (or if the damage is agreed to be fixed).

However we are now seeing a number of cases where the person is adamant that there has been no collision. Many of these cases seem to involve older drivers as the accused.

The usual method is to provide images showing the "damage" and a statement from an "independent witness" as to how the damage was incurred. Invariably the damage is minor, such as might be settled for a few hundred pounds. The invitation is made to settle without recourse to insurance so it is never registered as a claim.

We have seen cases across the age range but the reason we believe older drivers are particularly targetted is that they have to make a declaration as to their fitness to drive once they reach seventy and many very old drivers will fear that they will be deemed unfit if an accident is reported. Similarly they also know that their insurance premiums will rise greatly if they are deemed at-fault and hence they pay up.

I cannot comment on your particular case without a great deal more information but you should challenge the police on whether the accident happened and invite them to inspect your vehicle. Should there be no damage they may not pursue the case.

However if they do continue with the charges you will need legal assistance so the circumstances of the case can be thoroughtly checked out. In that event please contact me at asklucy@honestjohn.co.uk

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - Dwight Van Driver

As Lucy states NOIP, which has tyo be served within 14 days on an incident, is the first stage after a complaint/allegation , although NOIP not required following an accident, which would suggest, because one has been sent, the allegation is in relation to a spot of bad driving that has led to an accident invoving contact between others and not the poster.

It does not automatically follow that proceedings will follow. The next step will be for Plod to ascertain who the driver was at the time, interview and then file with all the evidence forwarded to CPS for them to make a decision as to any prosecution.

Be aware there may be CCTV of the park?

Nothing to hide then nothing to fear.

dvd

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - Gordon17

If Dwight is correct and the NOIP has to be served within 14 days, surely this one is out of time? The OP says that the alleged incident is 11th April and he receieved the NOIP on 5th May.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

yes the alleged incident was the 11th april and the letter stated 4th May I think. (Got it yesterday). This is what Im saying though, We havent been even close to a minor bump in a car park and the fact that we cant have been there at the time is whats worrying me. I'm going to wait for them to explain what the alleged offences were in detail and for the photos so I can see it for myself. If another car is running cloned plates I want to find out with pictures because my car has a couple of distinguishing features which arent on any other escort Ive seen. It was my dad driving (I cant drive) and he's always more than careful in Car parks, never bumped a car and he's the sort that would leave a note if he did. (unlike the selfish people who decided to slam their car door onto mine in asda car park and then just walk off - after staring at us as if it was our fault) We havent come close to knocking another car though so I dont understand. My dad reckons someones seen an Escort do it, then seen our car later on and thought it must be the one that did it.

Either way we have nothing to hide so our only fear is that they are going to prosecute for something that we havent done.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - LucyBC

There is no need to serve the NIP within 14 days if the case involves an accident. I don't think it will be a cloning case and your father's explanation is the most likely.

You need to contact the police and get them to inspect your vehicle.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - Peter D

OP. You stated in your first post " We were indeed at the car park on that day" then you insist you where not, can you please qualify this. Regards Peter

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - jamie745

I believe he's saying they were there but not until an hour after the alleged accident happened.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - Peter D

Thanks Jamie I missed that bit.

Have you checked the car park to see if there is CCTV coverage. Regards Peter

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

not yet dont really want to go in that car park any more , worried theres a scam or something going on (I'll go there when my bike is fixed and look as cant afford the fuel in the car to make unnecessary trips), apparently a friend just read on another forum about a near identical case (different area). Hoping there is though although in all the times Ive been there I dont think Ive ever seen CCTV cameras, unless they're hidden somewhere.

I really want to see if they have any photos of the "accident" as I would honestly like to know what they're on about. Plus I would like to see how they got our reg number at a time we werent there. Like I said to me it seems like someones seen our car and pinned it on us even though it wasnt. I just hope they realise the truth and see that it either is a scam or if an accident did occur its nothing to do with us. Didnt see any accidents while we were there but it was an hour after the alleged offence so would probably explain it .

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

right got another letter from the police today regarding the incident which actually explained it in detail. The owner of the other car (the one which got damaged) had parked her car up at the car park at 11am and returned 2 hours later to find a scrape and dent on her bumper. Of course as were parked up there next to her at the time she got back she looked and saw the scrape on our front bumper and called a police officer over who noted the damage hence they got our number plate. Im guessing the car was silver (they just said a skoda octavia and the reg number) as when we bought the car about 8 weeks ago there was a scrape (which looks like its been caused by hitting a stone wall more than a car). seeing this she obviously thought we'd done it but it was too much damage for simple car scrape.

So I have to somehow prove to the police that the scrape was there when i bought the car and not from that. The fact that she parked up at 11am and we didnt get there until 12 means several cars could have used that space before us and then there's the possibility that someone has hit her car and in order to avoid blame moved to a different spot. Apparently there is no CCTV as they dont have any footage. its going to be hard proving the scrape was there already though as the car's being sold (insurance has run out so cant keep it). For now Ive just sent them a letter explaining the damage was there when we bought it and asked them to consider the possibilities of other cars being there before us. I dont know what else to do if they keep going on about it as the car will be gone and its seriously stressing me out.

oh and to make it even more awkward they gave me a number and told me to to phone them on that number if I needed to. Well rung them with no response, tried the mainn number and it turns out that department only works monday to friday 9.30-3.30 so no chance of getting hold of them. :( I'll just have to see how it pans out as I cant take the stress of it any more. I have an illness affected by stress and this is making me really ill.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - LucyBC

They have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you caused the damage and they almost certainly cannot do that. The presence of damage on your car proves nothing.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

ok quick question. because I have no idea about the law when it comes to this. On the letter they sent they gave the reg number and make and model of the other vehicle. I asked in the letter if the car was silver as thats the colour of the scratches on our bumper from when we bought it. However I did a quick vehicle enquiry on DVLA website using the reg number and make they told me and the car comes back as green. Our car is green as well so I find it difficult to see how you could clearly see a difference in colours (I assume the skoda was the dark green they use which is nearly identical to our car).

the question is...will I get into trouble for doing a vehicle enquiry about the car from the details they gave me or not. I wanted to see what colour it was for my reference but is it illegal to do so in this case. Dont want to mention it on the letter and get myself in trouble for it. Just wanted to point out that if her car is dark green then of course my bumper is going to have the same colour paint on it as the whole car is painted that colour.

thanks.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - Dwight Van Driver

As Lucy says ^^^^^^^^^^^^

The only way Plod can prove beyond any reasonable doubt is by taking paint samples, control and from the damage area of both cars and have them forensically examined.

It does not matter that both colours are the same as different makers use different compostion in their paints.

With Forensic Labs under heavy pressure from heavy crime samples and the fact that they are strapped for cash it may not be that Plod will bother with samples so a wide open case, if action taken, for Lucy . Another minus is the fact that samples were apparently not taken there and then so the question of contamination can be raised.

I get the impression this may well just fizzle out and maybe settled between Insurance Companies.

dvd

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

but how would it be sorted between insurance companies if they dont know the other car that actually damaged it. Should I not mention that I did a vehicle enquiry then or will it not matter. I just dont want to get into trouble just wanted to point out that how did the other vehicle owner noticed her paint colour on my car if the colours are nearly identical?

but dont want to mention the vehicle enquiry if its going to get me in trouble. Although I cant see anything illegal about as they provided the reg number and vehicle details which allowed me to check.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - escortman24

ok just a quick update regarding this incident. received a letter today saying the vehicle is no longer treated as a potential offending vehicle and they have decided not to pursue police action in this case.

they also thanked me for the cooperation and apologised for the inconvenience and stress caused. if only all police forces were that polite.

thanks guys (and lucy) for all your help, glad to see that it really is a case of innocent until proven guilty.

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - jamie745

Well they're all busy chasing a supposedly transexual Liberal Democrat for speeding points at the moment so i guess they're busy!

ford escort - noip but havent done anything - FP

Where does the "transexual" bit come from?