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Dangerous driving charge - FP

A friend's son is in big trouble. Aged about 30, with six points on his licence for speeding, driving a highish-powered Ford Mondeo, he was provoked by aggressive driving in North London recently into attempting an unwise overtaking manouvre. He ended up hitting a keep-left bollard and ricocheting into a woman with a pushchair, who was crossing the road. In effect, when she was hit, the car was partly on the wrong side of the road. The child was unharmed, but the woman suffered facial and leg injuries, requiring hospitalisation for several days.

At yesterday's magistrates' court hearing, after the prosecution outlined the case and the victim's statement was read out, the case was adjourned to a criminal court, as the magistrates felt their powers of sentencing might not be sufficient. As expected, an immediate driving ban was imposed on the accused, who was finally persuaded to accept legal representation.

So far the lad has accepted he was entirely in the wrong, has been remorseful and offered restitution. He is of good character and is usually a quiet lad. At the moment he is off work through stress. His initial inclination was to refuse legal representation on the grounds that he did wrong and must accept whatever the courts decide. He now realises a solicitor will be able to present arguments that may minimise his sentence.

My friend is badly affected by it all, as you would expect. A lengthy driving ban and a hefty fine are the least concerns. Given that the magistrates could have imposed a custodial sentence of six months had they wished, I'm wondering if the lad is now looking at an even longer stretch in prison. Is a suspended sentence a possibility? Does anyone have any similar experience?

Edited by ChrisPeugeot on 05/04/2011 at 18:05

Dangerous driving charge - dickthepostman

Oh dear chris your friend is in deep trouble . The magistartes would have given him points and banned him or they could have banned him outright for the offence committed with the magistrates insisting that he has proper legal advice would sugest to me that heis going down !

so it is very important that he spends some time with his solicitor so he could stay out of prision

Dangerous driving charge - bonzo dog

Hi Chris, I don't suppose you'll want my take on it but here it is:

He may have been provoked but he was not provoked into driving aggressively - he chose to do so with complete disregard to the safety of others, with the direct result being he hit a woman with child in pushchair.

Personally I think he should spend the next 20 years inside as he is clearly a danger to others; this time his victim was lucky; next time who knows. I suppose when he does end up killing someone he will be remorseful again.

He'll probably end up with 100 hours community service

Dangerous driving charge - RT

By all accounts according to my magistrate B-i-L, they'll refer it to a higher court when THEY think a custodial sentence is appropriate - and reading your account I think it is.

Dangerous driving charge - rjr

I think RT (and his magistrate B-I-L) are right on the money.

The magistrates can only impose a maximum of 6 months imprisonment and/or a fine of up to £5000 and don't feel that is sufficient so they have sent it up to the Crown Court where he can be sentenced to 2 years imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine.

The CPS will probably argue that due to aggravating factors (the loss of self control, the inappropriate location of the overtaking manoeuvre, his previous motoring convictions if they are relevant) a non-custodial sentence is not appropriate.

So, he is looking at between 6 months and 2 years in prison, plus a ban, plus being ordered to sit an extended re-test.

Dangerous driving charge - Avant

What is the point of putting someone like that in prison? Our prisons are already overcrowded and should be kept for people who are a menace to society. This guy needs a lengthy driving ban and to retake a test at the end of it, plus perhaps community service - but I don't think he is in the same category as a violent criminal. He isn't a threat to society except for recklessness behind the wheel of a car.

I agree that a deterrent is needed - a driving ban of 10 years would surely fit the crime here.

Dangerous driving charge - bonzo dog

Our prisons are already overcrowded and should be kept for people who are a menace to society

So someone who in a fit of temper drives his car into a women with a child in a pushchair ISN'T a menace to society. Dear God!

Dangerous driving charge - dickthepostman

Sorry but i must disagree you must ask yourself if this was your wife and kid how would you feel.

he already had 6 points on his licence so he wasn't such an angel but i would agree that he should stay out of prision but that is now down to his soliciter

Dangerous driving charge - bathtub tom

A driving ban doesn't stop some from driving, prison does!

Edited by bathtub tom on 06/04/2011 at 00:06

Dangerous driving charge - LucyBC
Dangerous Driving

Title: Road traffic offences

Offence: Dangerous driving

Legislation: Road Traffic Act 1988 s.2

Commencement Date:

Mode of Trial: Triable either way

Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty:

  • On indictment - 2 years imprisonment or a fine or both
  • Summary conviction - imprisonment not exceeding 6 months, or a fine, or both
  • Disqualification minimum 12 months
  • Obligatory endorsement
  • Mandatory disqualification until passes extended driving test

Sentencing Range: Non custodial options may be considered, but usually a custodial penalty is appropriate, especially where a number of aggravating factors combine

Culpability & Harm

None

Aggravating & Mitigating Factors

A list of aggravating and mitigating factors was set out by the Court of Appeal in R v Cooksley and others [2004] 1 Cr App R (S) 1, which set the guideline for cases of causing death by dangerous driving. Although some of the factors outlined are of application only to offences in which death results, many of them are relevant to offences of dangerous driving.

Aggravating factors 1. Highly culpable standard of driving at the time of the offence
  • the consumption of drugs (including legal medication known to cause drowsiness) or of alcohol, ranging from a couple of drinks to a 'motorised pub crawl'
  • greatly excessive speed; racing; competitive driving against another vehicle; 'showing off'
  • disregard of warnings from fellow passengers
  • a prolonged, persistent and deliberate course of very bad driving
  • aggressive driving (such as driving much too close to the vehicle in front, persistent inappropriate attempts to overtake, or cutting in after overtaking)
  • driving while the driver's attention is avoidably distracted, for example by reading or by use of a mobile phone (especially if hand-held)
  • driving when knowingly suffering from a medical condition that significantly impairs the offender's driving skills
  • driving when knowingly deprived of adequate sleep or rest
  • driving a poorly maintained or dangerously loaded vehicle, especially where this has been motivated by commercial concerns
2. Driving habitually below an acceptable standard
  • other offences committed at the same time, such as driving without ever having held a licence; driving while disqualified; driving without insurance; driving while a learner without supervision; taking a vehicle without consent; driving a stolen vehicle
  • previous convictions for motoring offences, particularly offences that involve bad driving or the consumption of excessive alcohol before driving
3. Outcome of the offence
  • death (s.1 offences only)
  • serious injury to one or more victims, (in addition to the death(s) if also a case under s.1 RTA)
4. Irresponsible behaviour at the time of the offence
  • behaviour at the time of the offence, such as failing to stop, falsely claiming that one of the victims was responsible for the crash, or trying to throw the victim off the bonnet of the car by swerving in order to escape
  • causing death/injury in the course of dangerous driving in an attempt to avoid detection or apprehension
  • offence committed while the offender was on bail.
Mitigating factors
  • a good driving record;
  • the absence of previous convictions;
  • a timely plea of guilty;
  • genuine shock or remorse - in cases where death results (which may be greater if the victim is either a close relation or a friend);
  • the offender's age (but only in cases where lack of driving experience has contributed to the commission of the offence), and
  • the fact that the offender has also been seriously injured as a result of the accident caused by the dangerous driving.
Dangerous driving charge - RT

If our prisons are full, or overfull, we need to build more prisons, not let people off with lenient sentences WHERE prison is appropriate - that sort of woolly thinking has been going on for too long.

Dangerous driving charge - FP

Thanks for your contributions.

My own take on the situation is that the "lad" (that's how I think of him - so many youngsters seem to take ages to grow up these days) has let himself and the rest of his family down very badly and he knows it.

He's fully aware of what he has done, to the point where intitially he refused legal representation, feeling that he should suffer the full weight of the law and not attempt to minimise it.

Of course there are other, personal, issues that are emerging; some of them too personal to mention here. It will be sufficient to say that there is a suppressed anger stemming from incidents in his past which needs addressing; ironically he had admitted to such problems and his determination to seek professional help only days before the accident.

When his case next comes up, as I said after the initial hearing at the magistrates' court, he would be well advised to take his toothbrush. Anything else, it seems, will be a bonus.

Dangerous driving charge - LucyBC

He needs legal representation and given the seriousness of the offence he will probably get legal aid.

He is almost certainly looking at a custodial sentence given the aggravationg factors of the injury to a pedestrian, the cuircumstances of the offence and his previous driving record.

Dangerous driving charge - Ben 10

Driving bans for this type of offence are no deterrant. How many times have we seen people being pulled over on the fly on the wall cop shows that are driving whilst disqualified. And that is only the ones that have been caught. No justification for the reaction he gave at the time he became wound up. It could have ended worse all round. A custodial sentence in my view is apt. Maybe it might calm him down in the future.

Dangerous driving charge - jamie745

Sorry but i must disagree you must ask yourself if this was your wife and kid how would you feel.

Biased. Obviously. Thats why its not the family of the victims job to prosecute. Y'know, Democracy of Great Britain and all that. Fair and impartial trials? Cornerstone of democratic society? Ring a bell? No? Dont follow? Okay.

First off he cannot refuse legal help, the legal aid system was put there for a reason, courts can be merciless if you dont have someone there who knows the ins and outs. Ive met many solicitors in my work and a good one can use language in such a way to make everything seem completely different and he is entitled to receive such help. And dangerous driving almost killing baby in pushchair is possibly the worst headline imaginable, he wont get out of that by himself. In my view anybody sentanced to prison without a legal representative to argue their case should be an illegal conviction, but thats another discussion for another day.

His previous driving record doesnt help his cause but a good solicitor will go heavily on the side of good character and genuine remorse. I think the predictions of the others in here are probably about right, some ideas are a bit extreme, i'd never throw someone in prison for 20 years for stupid driving which didnt kill anybody, havent got room for a start LOL!!

Dangerous driving charge - bonzo dog

i'd never throw someone in prison for 20 years for stupid driving which didnt kill anybody

Which is pretty much the view of the courts.

Which is why offenders offend again & again & again.

A deterent is only a deterent if it deters. And in my view only very harsh penalties deter so the law should look to prevention which can only be achieved by prison

Edited by bonzo dog on 07/04/2011 at 18:18

Dangerous driving charge - jamie745

Well i believe in a proportionate sentance to the crime. And 20 years in prison for dangerous driving with no deaths involved puts the sentance on a par with pre-meditated murder. Keep going down that route and one day we'll be putting people in prison for 5 years for stealing a twix.

We have harsher penalties on driving law than alot of the western world. In some states in the US, California specifically, you can never lose your licence purely for speeding. The record speeding ticket issued there was for 210mph i think (three guesses at what car it was) and the most the judge could do is impose the maximum fine, 500 dollars i think it was. And he was free to go and do it again. Here, 9 times out of 10 you lose your licence for going over 100mph.

And as far as deterrents go, having to pass my test again is enough to stop me speeding anywhere LOL! I fear that more than any prison sentance you could throw at me. There will always be some people who just never learn. You will Never change that.

Dangerous driving charge - Gordon17

I guess this is him.........

http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/topstories/9020578.Driver_jailed_for_hitting_mother_with_baby_in_Hendon/

I think he's got off rather lightly - 3 months, with only half to be served in prison.

Doesn't really sound like the sort of chap who should be driving buses either!