Motorway driving standards | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks

Fri 18 Mar 2011 22:17

Motorway driving standards - runnerbean14

I had a particularly frustrating drive down a section of the M4 in heavy spray this morning. Lane 1 was almost empty, as usual there were a few members of the Centre Lane Owners' Group (CLOGs) in lane 2, and the consequence was that lane 3 was nose to tail with drivers staying out there for mile after mile, many driving much closer than seemed wise.

I like to make good progress but always leave a decent though not excessive gap, especially in spray. I find that if I'm in lane 3 in these conditions, some idiot soon comes charging up the inside and cuts across to lane 3 in front of me, just to 'win a few places'.

This can be a dangerous game, as well as being inefficient use of roadspace, so to keep out of trouble, whenever I can I try to move across into lane 2 and keep station there, moving back into lane 3 to pass the CLOGS and then back to lane 2. However this can upset the lane 3 owner's club, and today I got the finger from some especially aggressive 'dude' in a Ford Probe whose preferred spot was in lane 3, about 6 feet from the car in front, at 70 - ish.

I do about 30,000 miles a year and poor distance-keeping allied to incorrect lane use now seems to plague all two- and three-lane roads nationwide. I'm convinced that it engenders frustration that leads directly to the many accidents and the consequent closures that blight such roads. What are the thoughts on this forum on how best to deal with it on an individual basis? I had a session a while back with a really excellent advanced driving instructor, but while he was brilliant on how to cover A and B roads quickly and safely, he had no ready solution for motorways.

More generally, I'd like to think that improved driver education about keeping left might help, and even save money and lives, but that's the government's job, not mine. There seems to be a countervailing argument (prompted, I suspect, by laziness) that changing lanes is dangerous, so many drivers just pick a lane and stay there.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Mar 2011 22:29

Motorway driving standards - daveyjp

If lane 1 was empty why weren't you in it?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Mar 2011 22:41

Motorway driving standards - runnerbean14

If lane 1 was empty why weren't you in it?

Ha! Actually I did use lane 1 as well, on a few occasions where space in lanes 1 and 2 allowed, but in the circumstances described, when you're doing 70 in lane 1 and you come across a CLOG doing 60 in lane 2 you need to move across from lane 1 to lane 3 and then back to lane 1 which REALLY upsets the lane 3 owners' group and might be thought of by some as weaving.

In fact it was exactly that which caused Mr Probe to give me the finger. There is of course an option to give the CLOG a flash in the hope that he/she moves back to lane 1 but equally that might be thought aggressive.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Mar 2011 23:03

Motorway driving standards - Dutchie

So the Cloggers are the problem unless we use the American system undertake,Which is not allowed .Do like the French or Germans they flash their lights which is not seeing as agression and you move over.

A good idee to have the driving test include the motorway which not seem to be happening for reasons I dont understand, the

majority of the UK population live near M/Ws

The world is full of Mr Probes I'm afraid this is not going to change.Keep smiling :)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 07:48

Motorway driving standards - veryoldbear

Why do CLOGs do it? I would suggest there are two reasons: the first is that some CLOGs (usually the elderly) are absolutely terrified of motorways and the whole concept of changing lanes causes them to freeze up. The second reason is that if the motorway is busy it gets more and more difficult to change lanes (hands up all of ye who have been doing a decent speed in lane 1, come up behind a slow moving vehicle and been unable to get out).

I don't know what the answer is. Education is often mooted but surely by now all full licence holders know that CLOGing is not the right behaviour. If undertaking was allowed, the CLOGs would get even worse. They would be terrified of traffic coming past on both sides and be even more inclined to freeze and may be even slow down ... I had a 50 mph on the M4 the other night causing real problems. Light flashing is now generally seen as aggresive in the UK, and again causes frozen rabbit behaviour in CLOGs.

Maybe just take the train (if you can afford the mortgage or can plan six months ahead).

Edited by veryoldbear on 19/03/2011 at 07:50

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 09:50

Motorway driving standards - craig-pd130

Most of my M-way driving is during the working day, when lane 1 is nose-to-tail artics doing 56mph, and much of lane 2 is lorries going at 57.25mph.

In these situations, the danger I see is a CLOGger who suddenly gets a rush of blood to the head, and swerves into a minute gap in lane 3 at 65mph.

The one motorway habit that amuses / bemuses me most is the aggressive lane disciplinarian, who will swoop out into lane 3 to overtake, then on completing the overtake will swerve sharply straight back to lane 1, only to have to repeat the same swooping manoeuver half a mile later.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 09:59

Motorway driving standards - bathtub tom

Oh dear, I'm a 'swooper'. I'm also a covert 'undertaker'.

If lane 1 ahead is clear for half-a-mile, then I firmly believe you should be in it. You may be accused of being a 'clogger' otherwise.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 10:33

Motorway driving standards - Mike H

The one motorway habit that amuses / bemuses me most is the aggressive lane disciplinarian, who will swoop out into lane 3 to overtake, then on completing the overtake will swerve sharply straight back to lane 1, only to have to repeat the same swooping manoeuver half a mile later.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this just follow the highway code, except for the "swerving sharply" bit? I always drive in the leftmost lane consistent with the speed I'm travelling. If there's the likelihood of being in lane 1 for some time, I'll be in it. Approach CLOG member in middle lane (assuming 3 lanes), move out to outside lane to overtake, then move back to leftmost assuming, once again, I'll be there for a measurable period of time. So are you saying that you personally would only use lanes 2 & 3 and ignore 1 on the offchance you might have to move out of lane 1 at some point?

To be fair, the problem's not just confined to the UK. Despite the fact that, in general, the lane discipline in Germany in better than the UK, the one problem the germans have is a fear of being baulked by slow traffic, and a lot of them will move out into their lane 2 if they even sniff a lorry ahead, in case they can't move out when they need to, which would of course impede their necessarily rapid progress ;)

Edited by Mike H on 19/03/2011 at 10:37

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 10:47

Motorway driving standards - Andy P

A few days ago, travelling north on the M53, I was followed by a young lady in a Clio. When I got to junction 5, where the motorway goes from 2 to 3 lanes, I stayed in lane 2 to pass some slower-moving cars, then moved into lane 1. Clio behind moves to lane 3 - lane 2 completely empty for at least a mile.

Why?

It's at times like these I wish I had in-car video - I'd put these up on YouTube as examples of how NOT to drive.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 11:57

Motorway driving standards - Ben 10

Sometimes I'd just like to speak one to one with the arrogant nutcases who perform these techniques just to find out what is going on in their tiny minds and explain their actions and why they cannot follow simple rules and behave like the majority of normal beings.

As to incorporating motorway driving into the the driving test. What will that achieve. Learners are taught to pass a test, not drive as we should according to the rules. They would just pass this phase of the test, then once passed, would drive like anyone and follow some of the worst habits they see others commit. Wouldn't address anything.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 16:33

Motorway driving standards - Dutchie

I dont follow your logic Ben.

The motorway is part of our driving experience and to learn about lane disipline keeping distance how to join the motorway and having the confidence to drive on the motorway should be part of the test.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 17:34

Motorway driving standards - Pat L

The cloggers really annoy me. It's less of a problem but more obvious on a quiet motorway when a car (usually smallish hatchback) is pootling along at 60 in the middle lane with barely another vehicle in sight. I have to admit I sometimes come up behind them, flash them and then overtake and return to lane 1. I look across as I pass them and most of the time they're totally oblivious to what's going on. Occasionally one will get the message and pull over to lane 1. I find their lack of awareness quite worrying.

These cloggers obviously just drive everywhere in lane 2 regardless of traffic conditions. Get on the M6 at Carlisle and then cruise down to Devon in lane 2 at 60-65mph.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 17:37

Motorway driving standards - craig-pd130

I'm talking about drivers who can see there is another vehicle in lane 1 / 2 a matter of a few seconds ahead, but rather than continuing in lane 2 / 3 for those few seconds (assuming they are not baulking anyone behind), will swoop in and out of lanes quickly.

Lane discipline is one thing; rushing immediately to the leftmost lane whenever there's a moment's gap (especially when one is not obstructing a following vehicle) is quite another.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 18:14

Motorway driving standards - AF

In these situations, the danger I see is a CLOGger who suddenly gets a rush of blood to the head, and swerves into a minute gap in lane 3 at 65mph.

A maximum 5mph difference shouldn't cause many problems, unless of course the drivers in lane 3 either have not left sufficient braking distance or are speeding...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 19:34

Motorway driving standards - Engineer Andy

I believe many people who are CLOGs are afraid of the very bad tailgating by some HGVs - it can get quite unnerving to have one close up to your car (mainly on a downslope when the HGV picks up speed) with no regard for a safe breaking zone (you may as well kiss your life goodbye if you have to do an emergency stop with an HGV within 6ft of your rear bumper).

I've seen others do it on 3-lane "A" roads, particularly where the lanes aren't quite as wide as those on full-lown motorways (the A1 southbound between the M25 and the A41 is a good example of a very narrow slow lane [it is also poorly surfaced]), so drivers use the middle lane to avoid being sideswiped by larger vehicles encroaching on the slow lane. As has been said, this is fine when there's no-one else around, but CLOGs should always move over in good time to allow fast vehicles to pass in the middle lane.

Unfortunately, as there are very few traffic police thesedays (and those who are spend [IMHO] too much time "gathering evidence" [quite often standing around chatting] at the scenes of accidents rather than clearing the road safely and swiftly), so such bad habits don't get stopped. I think that motorway driving needs to be part of the driving test (or a post "standard" test) to enable people to be taught the correct way to drive on multiple-lane roads.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Mar 2011 23:52

Motorway driving standards - captain chaos

Oh dear, where to begin?

I see this every day, lane 3 congested, lane 2 CLOGed, lane 1 empty.

The reason for this is lane 3 is the 'fast' lane, lane 2 is 70 (indicated) lane, and lane 1 is the 'slow' lane.

Drivers in this country do not seemed to have grasped that the rule is to keep left unless overtaking.

The American system of passing either side would solve the congestion problem but would never work because few drivers know how to look in their mirrors and signal when making a lane change.

Apparently BMWs destined for the US market are fitted with indicators... ; )

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 20 Mar 2011 09:54

Motorway driving standards - bathtub tom

I believe the inside lane of Italian motorways is known as 'the lane of shame'.

Perhaps that's indicative of the ignorance of the drivers that are reluctant to use it?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 20 Mar 2011 12:00

Motorway driving standards - Collos25

A weeks driving in Germany/Ausria would soon cure them most British drivers would be too scared to venture out of the slow lane.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 22 Mar 2011 12:56

Motorway driving standards - Mike H

A weeks driving in Germany/Ausria would soon cure them most British drivers would be too scared to venture out of the slow lane.

Absolutely! Nothing like an Audi with full beam to concentrate the mind.....

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 22 Mar 2011 15:47

Motorway driving standards - bathtub tom

A weeks driving in Germany/Ausria would soon cure them most British drivers would be too scared to venture out of the slow lane.

Therein lies the problem.

There is no slow lane!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 20 Mar 2011 12:03

Motorway driving standards - Collos25

Hi Dutchie,I am back in the Fatherland ended my chemo and been given the allclear have to have reguler inspections but its given me a new lease on life started work for a Chinese electronics company and if I like it and they like me shall be based in Berlin shortly.

Andy

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 20 Mar 2011 12:45

Motorway driving standards - P3t3r

It's interesting to see things from other peoples perspective. I have recently changed the way I drive on motorways and I now spend most of my time sat behind lorries in lane 1. My experience isn't too dissimilar to yours though.

The first thing that REALLY annoys me is when people cut me up when it's wet. They blind me with the spray, which is very inconsiderate and dangerous, not to mention the fact that there is a very short piece of slippery road between the two of us.

As I spend most of my time doing 50-60mph in lane 1 you would think I wouldn't get any trouble from other motorists overtaking? It seems people are incapable of safely overtaking another vehicle though, even when it's driving slowly. One thing that annoys me is people who overtake, then cut me up forcing me to brake. This happens a lot in lane 1!

One other thing that I notice too is that the traffic density is higher in the faster lanes. Lane 1 will often have a few vehicles with a large gap, lane 2 has a lot more vehicles with a small gap, and lane 3 will have more vehicles and almost no gap! It's not unusual for me to sit in an empty lane 1 when the other lane is full (on a 2 lane dual carraigeway). As people tailgate in the outside lane they slam their brakes on every few minutes. What should I do in this case? Should I slam my brakes on or pass them on the inside? The obvious solution here is for me to leave a larger gap between myself and the person in front of me in the outside lane, but I can't because that would put me behind another driver. Some drivers actually leave a gap so small that my car wouldn't fit in it, which is very dangerous, so I usually give up my position and drop back in this situation.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 20 Mar 2011 13:10

Motorway driving standards - Dutchie

I used to drive in lane one just like what you are doing now when I had the old beetles.70 mph top speed so i drove at about 56 mph.

In lane one you are stuck behind or in between lorries which doesn't feel very comfortable.If you leave a gap you find a lorry very close driving behind you.

All three lanes on the motorway are 70mph top speed so if all of us percieve that the two outside lanes are the faster lanes why are there some people driving at 60 mph in the middle lane.?

These drivers who leave a gap to small with the car in front on the motorway are idiots in my opinion this is far more dangerous than breaking the speed limit .

I also find that there is a lot of intimitation going on our roads .When I drive the daughters panda there is a a lot of pushing to speed up by drivers in more powerfull cars.In the Focus which has a turbo diesel and is a larger car not so except the BMW brigade some of them are from a different galaxie.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 22 Mar 2011 13:53

Motorway driving standards - Ethan Edwards

Thing you have to understand dutchie is that the BMW/ Audi Hi power brigade can sit three millimetres from the car in front, at speeds around 100mph, because they have a special button on the dashboard. This button creates a spacial field. The field distorts the laws of time space gravity and inertia (especially in wet conditions), thus enabling them to come to a halt with tens of metres to spare.

Us mere 'umble ordinary mortals driving more mundane metal shouldn't do this because it's asinine and a quick ticket to the graveyard.

See I figured it out!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 23 Mar 2011 14:11

Motorway driving standards - ndr116

I have a related puzzle. On 4 lane sections of motorway I have noticed some drivers stick to lane 2 while others stick to lane 3. Both types would be CLOGs on a 3 lane road, so I wonder how they decide whether they belong in lane 2 or 3?

Also, I notice that when these drivers come up behind a slower vehicle they do not pull out to overtake (even when the 3rd or 4th lane is clear). They just sit in their chosen lanes behind the slower vehicle until it pulls in. If it happens to be a slower cruiser of their chosen lane they form a little line, often following closer than they should.

Is there a logic to this because it is not that uncommon?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 23 Mar 2011 19:58

Motorway driving standards - Dutchie

If somebody runs into your LPG tank Ethan its straight to the happy hunting grounds.

(only kiddind) :)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 23 Mar 2011 22:52

Motorway driving standards - Ethan Edwards

Yep thats a widely believed urban myth. Seen this...

http://www.lpgautoconversions.co.uk/questions.php

Check out the photo of the burned out tank.

In any event I drive italian. Whatsa behinda me donta matta. If it gets hit it gets hit. People count everything else can be fixed.

In the last ten years I too think driving standards have plummeted.

Cheers.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 09:32

Motorway driving standards - bathtub tom

Are vehicles fitted with LPG tanks still banned from using the channel tunnel?

Why does the fire service set up a wide exclusion zone when any vehicle carrying compressed gas cylinders catches fire?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 10:31

Motorway driving standards - veryoldbear

If LPG tanks are caught up in a fire the contents can boil off until there is a critical (stochiometric) mixture of butane / propane whatever and air and then KABOOM. There are well documented cases of this happening.

Look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_liquid_expanding_vapor_explosion

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 19:03

Motorway driving standards - torqueman

I think most of the points on lane hogging have been covered here and I do agree that additional training is needed.

One of the worst instances of lane hogging that I come across is the M40 heading west from the M25. This is at least 4 lanes and lanes one and two are frequently empty with "Nose to tail" traffic in the outside lanes. I'm afraid that I am often guilty here of keeping at a steady 70 in lane one undertaking the hoggers in the outside lanes.

Another point I have noticed is that the CLOG habits vary in different parts of the country and I would nominate Essex as one of of the worst. I frequently leave the M25 to head east on the A127(A dual carriageway) and I often witness cars following this route immediately taking the outside lane on the 127 even when lane one is empty.

The other problem that I encounter that I don't beleive has been mentioned is that travelling in lane one, seems to make other motorists feel obliged to overtake even if they are travelling at much the same speed. When lane one is clear and I move into it, and engage speed control at say, 70mph, the car which has been following in lane two for several miles will acclerate and overtake instaed of dropping in behind. They then revert to a slower speed and you find yourself catching them up. Do you then undertake?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 00:31

Motorway driving standards - Smileyman

With the current price of fuel I've taken to cruising at exactly 70mph using the cruse control (where speed limit allows) - the problem is many other motorists still want their 80mph +. Now I will pull out to lane 2 or 3 in good time not to need to loose momentum and touch the pedals, but the tail behind me seems to grow longer..... in many instances it is CLOGs who force me into lane 3. thus slowing down faster moving traffic. In the end I'll start to pass in lane 1 - or 'use the nearside lane whenever it is not occupied' - even if lane 2 or 3 are in use.

Why 70mph - well I'm paid 40p a mile to drive on business, I have a duty to my employer to arrive in good time, but they will not pay me any extra to cover the increased fuel cost of driving any faster. (Nor will they cover any speeding fines or extra insurance costs).

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 08:15

Motorway driving standards - johnnyrev

If I approach a CLOG in lane 2 doing 60-65 whilst I am in lane 1 I will undertake! This seems safer than crossing two lanes to pass and two more too return to lane 1. Am I right in thinking that as long as I am not exceeding 70 in lane 1 this sort of undertaking is okay?

I remember Clarkson saying on TG that there is no need to brake on the motorway if you anticipate correctly and watch the road ahead, changing lanes to overtake or let someone pass. I hate to agree with JC but I think he's right! Many seem unable to anticipate and I often see a faster driver drive right up behind a slower driver in lane 3, then slam on the brakes and appear to be trying to climb in the boot.

Spot the brake lights and you will probably spot an inconsiderate driver!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 11:16

Motorway driving standards - tanvir

I just stay in lane 1 at 60 these days. Since doing this i get around 50-80 miles more from a tank as well...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 24 Mar 2011 13:59

Motorway driving standards - Dutchie

I do admit driving at a lower speed is more relaxing around 60 to 70 mph.

Iam retired now so i can plan ahead and dont have to rush anywhere.But I dont want to hold anybody up who has to drive for a living and has to arrive from A to B as quikly as possible.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 25 Mar 2011 09:03

Motorway driving standards - Monsieur Kev

The personnel responsible for putting up messages on motorway electronic signs will put uop things like "Think Bike" but not "Keep left unless overtaking" which is very rarely seen

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 25 Mar 2011 09:11

Motorway driving standards - Armstrong Sid

The personnel responsible for putting up messages on motorway electronic signs will put uop things like "Think Bike" but not "Keep left unless overtaking" which is very rarely seen

And it might be more useful if they started putting up messages like "So....why are you still in the outside lane?"

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 25 Mar 2011 19:33

Motorway driving standards - galileo

Yesterday evening most of the signs on the Birmingham to M62 stretch of the M6 were in fact showing "Keep left unless overtaking" - I seldom use that part of M6 and was pleased to see them - I did see a number of cars actually use lane 1 in between overtakes (staggers back in amazement!).

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 26 Mar 2011 15:01

Motorway driving standards - primeradriver

Yes, the M1 last night had a number of signs heading north saying "Don't hog the middle lane" which I thought was a good idea.

However I did see one good reason for getting out of the inside lane last night. I was in no rush to get home (Reading to Durham is always going to take several hours no matter how fast you go) so I was on an economy drive (which worked -- 52mpg out of a petrol Focus). So I was plodding on the inside lane (and only the inside lane for the most part) at around 55-60, keeping up with the trucks and overtaking the odd one or two (always increasing speed to 70-75 whilst doing so).

There was this one white van who was pestering me though -- weaving all over the left lane as if he was on drugs or dozing off or something, and every time I tried to accelerate out of his way he'd follow me and then resume his position 3 yards from my rear bumper. I didn't want to be anywhere near this idiot when he finally did hit something.

It would have been very tempting to sit in the middle lane at 65 and slowly get out of his way. As it happened I just booted it, put a good 2 or 3 miles between us and resumed the economy run. I can see why people wouldn't want that on their bumper for miles on end though.

Edited by primeradriver on 26/03/2011 at 15:05

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 26 Mar 2011 16:02

Motorway driving standards - barney100

There is no solution to Mr Clog or his cousin in lane three. Many times on the M3 at night clog has the whole motorway to himself for as far as you can see. Round him you go and move over to the inside lane feeling very moral and superior and in your mirror clog is sailing obstinately on. The really annoying clog traps you in lane one so you can't pull out past the lorry and you wonder if clog has figured it out beter than me.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 26 Mar 2011 17:48

Motorway driving standards - veryoldbear

Maybe it would be useful if the matrix signs occasionally said "DON'T CLOG".

The unfortunate CLOGs would spend a lot of time worrying about what it meant and finally end up driving into the back of a Norbert or an Eddy ....

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator