Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? | Legal matters | Back Room Forum

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 12:50

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

Hi All,

I am after abit of advice. On 28/12/10 I went to visit a second hand car dealer to look at a Volvo V50, now on the advert it said 1 owner and 47k. When I went to the dealer I looked over the car and took it for a spin, all was fine and correct. I checked the service history and all was fine too.

The seller gave all the schpeel about how he had another person interested and I should put a deposit down if I wanted the car, now usually I wouldn't fall for a trick like this but I had shiney car syndrome and put a deposit down.

Later on that evening I did a HPI check on the vehicle and found it showed as having outstanding finance on it and infact 2 owners. I contacted the seller the next morning and he said that the outstanding finance marker will be removed as its a mistake (I confirmed this with the finance company too, apparently a guy went in to buy the same car went through with all the finance and decided he didn't want it hence why it was on there). However he was adament that it had only 1 owner.

Alarm bells started ringing in my head at this point and I called HPI and they confirmed it has had 2 registered keepers not one, there was also a 3rd down which was the garage so this didn't count. So I emailed the seller asking for a refund as he had mis-described the car, he didn't respond.

So I called him after 48 hours and he said he would not refund me my money as I had cancelled the contract. I told him he had already broken the contract as he miss-described the car. And he then told me he'd pursue me for £150 for loss of earnings since he took the car off sale.

Can someone please confirm I am correct with my rights that, he the seller must describe the car correctly otherwise I am entitled to a full refund under the sales of goods act? I have evidence of the advert showing 1 owner, and I have the HPI report showing it has had 2. Also in addition to this the seller has now changed the advert to show 2 owners. So surely this shows that he knows he was wrong?

Sorry for the long post, but any advice will be gladly received.

TIA

Craig

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 13:25

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - LucyBC

How much deposit have you paid and what was the sale price of the vehicle?

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 13:33

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

Hi,

The deposit was £100 and the sale price of the vehicle was £5395.

Thanks

Craig

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 14:59

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - LucyBC

So we're not talking about a refund but the recovery of a deposit.

He is miffed as you put down a small deposit which means he took the vehicle off the market. He may well have lost another buyer.

The HP stands up as does the service history -- it looks like it is a fundamentally good car with low mileage and a solid history -- so your entire case rests on whether HPI or he is right on the ownership.

HPI make mistakes (they have made one already with the vehicle) and histories are misinterpreted every day. It is possible (indeed likely) that the dealer was right and the non-purchaser was listed as an additional owner by mistake.

As to the praciticalites if he opposes it as seems likely, to get your £100 back you would need to make a claim in the small claims court. He would probably counterclaim on the basis of a loss of sale. Claims at this level are fundamentally impractical.

The best advice is probably to buy the car but maybe negotiate to knock a hundred or two off the purchase price on the uncertainty as to the number of owners.

Or alternatively walk away and forget recovering the deposit.

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 15:34

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

Hi Lucy,

The dealer has now confirmed it has had 2 owners, apparently these 2 owners were 'connected' as business partners or something and he has now updated the advert too.

I've called HPI too and they've confirmed that the finance was not their mistake rather the finance company for not requesting deletion. In addition they have also confirmed it has 2 owners and this is correct from the DVLA.

Also I have lost faith in the dealer as I now no longer trust him due to the lies he has told.

In addition if I did claim at the small claims court, and if he did counterclaim would he not have to provide evidence? I can provide evidence that it shows 1 owner on his website/advert and can provide proof that he has now changed it to 2 owners.

Also I know its only £100 but with the dealer trying to 'pull the wool over my eyes', I wouldn't trust him if something went wrong with the vehicle. Its also just the principal of it, as the only reason I am cancelling the sale.

Finally he has threatened me verbally saying he was going to pursue me for £150 for the loss of sale, surely he has no legal right to do this?

Craig

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 16:27

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - LucyBC

Not being "as described" would allow you to pull out of the deal and recover your deposit.

That said these are relatively trivial matters and I can understand that the dealer feels aggrieved if you have lost him a sale on a cheap, low mileage genuine vehicle and then start calling him a liar in a public forum.

This seems to have misunderstanding written all over it.

Write him a polite letter and forget about court action. You will probably get a cheque by return if you compose and phrase it well enough.

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 17:27

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

Sorry Lucy, I don't understand what you mean? I've not mentioned the dealers name or anything nor will I.

At first he said it only had one owner, yet the next time I called and questioned him further he told me it had 2 owners but they were partners. This is the reason why I have lost my trust in the seller. It does make me wonder why the previous buyer pulled out of the sale also. There were in addition some anomalies on the service history but these were cleared up with calls to the service dealer.

Do you really think I don't have a case here? As I said before the only reason I am pulling out is there is no trust on my part for the seller due to the miss describing of the vehicle. Also I do not consider it 'cheap' as £5500 is alot of money to me, and for that I want a car what it is. I wanted a low mileage 1 owner car, which is why I went for it. Not a 2 owner low mileage car where in effect I'd be its 3rd owner in so may years. Which seriously affects its desirability to me.

He's also said he will not give me a refund under any circumstances and the fact he'll pursue me for £150 makes me even further aggrieved too.

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 18:21

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - Dutchie

Hello Graig,I can't see you buying the car now ill feeling is creeping in.I would forget about the £100 deposit and move on.The £150 the dealer wants of you I would ignore he's got your deposit.In future I would not pay any deposit to any dealer untill you have got all the full facts and paperwork about any car you buy if they don't agree don't buy.

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 18:40

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - LucyBC

I think you have a very good case but I don't think a £100 deposit is worth court action. You should have resolved it between yourselves before now.

As Dutchie says you should never pay a holding deposit until you are perfectly happy to purchase the vehicle.

£5500 is indeed a lot of money but so far you have laid out £100 and probably prevented him selling what is probably a perfectly good low mileage vehicle - and no doubt he feels aggrieved by this.

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 19:13

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

I do understand that its only £100 and I should have done a HPI check beforehand. But I always think you should be able to trust dealers to be selling something that is described correctly.

Also I only did the HPI as a matter of course, as I've been stung in the past by a dealer when it turned out the car I was going to buy off them turned out to be stolen! I wasn't expecting anything to come up yet things did.

I am still quite worried if the dealer does pursue me for £150 for loss of earnings etc though.

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Sun 2 Jan 2011 20:03

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - Vitesse6

If you are concerned that the dealer may pursue you for this, maybe you need to negotiate some sort of settlement.

Does the extra owner make such a difference to you wanting the car - you were obviously happy with it until you found the extra owner so maybe have a talk with the dealer and try and resolve it like adults - you apologise for anything you may have said to upset or insult him, and see if you can get a deal on the car which you are both happy with.

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Mon 3 Jan 2011 10:45

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

Hi,

I don't see why I should need to come to a settlement after all its his fault that he lost the sale.

And yes it does make a big difference to me, as this is the first time I've had enough money to be able to afford the best car I can. Hence why I went for a 1 owner 47k car with a full service history. The fact it has 2 owners makes it value less too.

In addition there is just something not quite right. When looking for the garage we went to get directions from a petrol station and the guy who gave us directions joked make sure you have RAC cover. I never thought anything of it at the time as the seller seemed genuine and decent.

But since it has been misdescribed and now he's admitted its had 2 owners aswell as 1 sale that fell through for reasons unknown to me, it makes me very very dubious about spending my hard earned on this car.

I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person thinking like this.

I just want my deposit back due to the principal of it too.

Thanks

Craig

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Mon 3 Jan 2011 14:53

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - Turv

personally i would issue a 7 day letter with intention of small claim preceedings, if he wins or loses he will have a CCJ against him, if he wins, then he has the lovely task of getting the CCJ removed from multiple credit agencies of the likes of experian credit etc, no dealer will want this for a £100 deposit.

Turv.

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Mon 10 Jan 2011 14:15

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - gfewster

I agree with Lucy that it isn't worth court action.

However I am also totally behind the OP's position that he now doesn't want to do business with the guy. I would feel the same. He has been lied to, and now doesn't trust the bloke as far as he could throw him.

Let's stop hiding behind the explanation of 'a misunderstanding'. Dealers and garages up and down the country tell hundreds of bare-faced lies to their customers every single day - we all know that. The motor trade is just about the most bent trade in the country, but we have to just deal with it.

Personally once I catch someone in the business (it is usually MOT places or repair garages) lying to me then I just let them know I'm onto them, negotiate an appropriate reduction on the bill for not contacting trading standards or local press, and then never use them again.

Write a polite letter and ask for your £100 back. If he refuses, go to the small claims court - it's unfortunate but I'm afraid it's then the only way. Once the summons goes out, he'll probably pay you the £100. As a previous poster mentioned, no dealer is going to go to court over £100.

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Sun 20 Mar 2011 14:37

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - iFocus

If any one is interested, I finally got my money back.

I took some legal advice from a solictors and decided on a small claims court claim. It went through all the motions.

The defendant defended the claim at the last possible moment (no doubt expecting me to cease action maybe).

So it was transferred to my local county court, where I filled in the allocation questionnaire and submitted all the evidence I had, including the adverts of before and after the seller updated them.

Then as a complete surprise I received a refund a week or so before it was due to be heard by the local court.

So fairly happy with that, the fact I won in the end! I did loose £25 going to court but still got my money back and kept my pride so thats all that matters.

I now also own a new car too, found a car at a dealership I've purchased a car from before and am very happy. And far better than a Volvo being a Skoda Octavia vRS!

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Mon 21 Mar 2011 15:59

Volvo V50 - Dealer mis-described car, my rights and refund? - bonzo dog

Well done!

People on both sides of the car trade (dealers & customers) are all to willling to lie, cheat & mislead in order to get the deal they want.

If everyone was a tenacious as you at pursuing those at fault the trade would be a lot cleaner than it is.

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