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Hit by overtaking car - hub

I'll try to keep this brief but would really like some advice.

Last Monday my wife was driving home at 9:20 pm having collected my 11 year old son from Scouts. She makes this journey several times a week and is entirely familiar with the roads and junctions. It was a dark but clear night and the roads were wet due to recent rain. Her route takes her through a country lane, left onto a B road through the village for about 150 yd and then right into our street just before the B road narrows to single lane.

She reached the left turn and seeing no vehicles approaching from either direction turned left onto the B road. She then drove the 150 yd or so towards the junction with our Street. As she approached the junction she indicated right, braked slightly (due to the short distance her speed was already low) and moved to the crown of the road. Just as she began her turn to the right, travelling at 4 or 5 mph, her car was struck a powerful glancing blow in the area of the front off-side wheel by another vehicle.

She briefly lost control of the vehicle before managing to steer right again, coming to rest against a grass island. The volume of the collision was so loud that the occupants of the surrounding houses rushed out to assist and 2 doctors in the village were summoned to the scene.

My son and wife were taken to a neighbour’s house and I dealt with the aftermath of the collision (we live about 300 m away). I took photographs of the damage to both cars. I also photographed the area during daylight.

The driver of the other vehicle and his wife claimed that my wife was on the left of the road indicating left. This doesn't make sense for a right turn which she performs many times a week; if this was the case they would have missed her completely or she would have had to turn the car sharply to enter our street and they would have struck her car at a greater angle. This is not consistent with the damage to either of the vehicles.

I wonder if he was travelling very fast (as there was no sign of him or his headlights when she turned left out of the country lane) and, perhaps, he saw her indicator on just afterwards and then failed to observe her because he was focused on overtaking?

He also said that he was uncertain as to my intentions as they drove up behind my wife’s car yet he attempted to overtake her:

at speed in a 30mph limit
in the dark
on a wet road
at a junction

He also states that my wife’s left indicator was on after the collision, but frankly the controls were all over the place; wipers etc.

He is denying all liability and our insurance company (Hastings Direct) are muttering already about having to split blame and costs. I suspect that this is because its easier for them.

My feeling is that he is entirely to blame and we should pursue this through the courts if the insurance company won't. I didn’t call the police as no-one was, as far as we know, hurt – now I wish I had – though I reported the accident the following morning. Your advice would be much appreciated.

Help!

Hit by overtaking car - injection doc

depending on age and make of car , and I asume its not driveable, did the air bags deploy ? some crash data can be retrived by experts and if the vehicle is fiited with a SAS ( steering angle sensor )then even the angle of the steering wheel and speed and whether brakes were applied can be retrieved.

You may need to speak to your dealer before the insurance company take the car away not to be seen again

I don't want to get your hopes up as this is only some late vehicles but it can be done.

having suffered with an insurance company recently that insisted on a 50/50 when I was stationary really anoyed me and has had further concequences when wishing to renew my policy so I sympathise.

My insurance company said the assesor would be able to work out who was to blame but he wasn't interested so don't trust them

Hit by overtaking car - Dwight Van Driver

Oh for an independent witness.

At the moment it is two against two on the signal.

Insurance company will apportion blame on the ruling of Rule 179 and 180 of the Highway Code which has been backed up by Courts that there is an obligation on a driver turning right to ensure it is safe to do so.

dvd

Edited by Dwight Van Driver on 20/11/2010 at 15:42

Hit by overtaking car - Peter D

When you say a right turn at a junction, do you mean a right turn off the B road into your street. Was there an optiobto turn left i.e. it was a four way junction. It is unclear if you were also in the car. Can you explain or provice a desciption and Google MAp reference. Regards Peter

Hit by overtaking car - hub

Hi,

I’ll try to answer all questions so far

Injection doc.

Car not driveable – front wheel barely attached. Airbags didn’t deploy. It’s a 5 month old Mazda MX-5 (My first ever new car, mid-life crisis-sob…).

dvd

Thanks for the pointer - rule 179 (turning right) actually says: use mirrors, signal right, position just to left of centre of road, leave room for vehicles to pass on the left. She is certain she did all of that. If the onus was on us to be sure it was safe no-one would turn right with a car behind them unless it had stopped?

However, rule 167 (overtaking) says: do not overtake approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road, or where the road narrows. He has admitted overtaking at a junction and the road narrows to single lane a matter of a few yards further on.

Peter,

Link here:

maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGIH_en...A

Wife came from the East using lane near the letter A. Turned left (South) through village aiming to turn right (West) just where the red and green cars are. You can see the grass island where she ended up after the impact.

Hope that’s OK. This is really useful folks – much appreciated.

A thought, do I have to contact Lucy BC direct or does she monitor the forum?

Hit by overtaking car - Peter D

Still not clear. What road name was she going to turn into.

Were you in the car. After the event did anyone note the position of the debri on the road. Regards Peter

Hit by overtaking car - hub

Hi,

Sorry. She was turning into Church Street. I wasn't in the car. The debris was just about where the red car is, though just on the other side of the white line, opposite the turning.

David

Hit by overtaking car - Avant

I do sympathise - but as DVD says it's difficult for your wife unless she can find an independent witness.

Lucy BC normally monitors this section of the forum, and will probably see this tomorrow. If she doesn't, I'll E-mail her for you and ask her to look at it.

That said, she'll probably advise similarly to DVD who is very knowledgeable.

Hit by overtaking car - hub

Hmm, Interesting to see what she has to say. I've taken the liberty of contacting Lucy BC anyway as I wasn't sure whether she monitored this forum or not.

I've just finished the first draft of the statement and was tempted to upload it until I noticed the size (15 Mb)... Diagrams and pictures of both vehicles and the scene in daylight. Don't think that would be appreciated!

Did I mention that the other car came to rest on the left of the road right next to a sign "WARNING Oncoming vehicle in middle of road" where the road narrows.... In view of the speed and location (in a village, at a junction and where the road narrows) I've also been advised to pass the statement to the police but it's probably too late for them to act. Really wish I'd called them at the time.

Hit by overtaking car - LucyBC
I have picked this up through Ask Lucy and am dealing with it.

I do read the forums but not every day over the weekend.
Hit by overtaking car - hub

That's great. Many thanks, look forward to hearing from you.

Hit by overtaking car - LucyBC
Can you send me contact details (name, phone number and email address) to lucy.bonhamcarter@autolaw.co.uk

Our liability specialist wants to go over a couple of issues with you which would be more quickly settled on the telephone.
Hit by overtaking car - LucyBC
Can you email me a copy of the statement, maps, pictures etc.

lucy.bonhamcarter@autolaw.co.uk

Thanks
Hit by overtaking car - Peter D

So there was no option to 'turn left' where this accident occured. Is that correct.

Regards Peter

Hit by overtaking car - hub

Sort of, could have turned left into a pub card park (very narrow entrance). Would have to swing out right and then turn in sharp left to do so though.

See Google map for a view:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&rlz=1R2ADBR_enGB357&q=llysworney&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Pub is opposite Church Street, Llysworney.

David

Edited by hub on 22/11/2010 at 23:01

Hit by overtaking car - Peter D

That is not an entrance. It is clearly marks as No Entrance. So there is NO left turn there. This must strengthen your wifes case. Regards Peter

Hit by overtaking car - hub

Peter,

I think you're right, well spotted (right under my nose too).

Playing Devil's advocate - the other guy may claim he thought she was turning into the slightly earlier entrance marked 'IN' but that's possibly too far back up the road (other side of the pub).

That's helpful, many thanks.

Lucy has kindly offered to help too, so I've sent her a copy of the statement we've just posted to the insurance company (got it down to 4.4 Mb). We've point blank refused to accept any liability and have asked for legal action to be taken if the other driver doesn't accept full responsibility. We shall see...

David

Edited by hub on 23/11/2010 at 21:46

Hit by overtaking car - Peter D

I think Lucy should have read your statement prior to sending it to anyone else. However if you have already posted it then so be it. Regards Peter

Hit by overtaking car - hub

Good point, not thinking straight... As you say, so be it...

David

Hit by overtaking car - hub

It's all gone quiet! I sent my wife's statement to Lucy and have just followed up with some paperwork from the other driver's solicitor. They now say/imply that my wife was using the phone whilst driving (it was in her handbag) on the grounds that she had it in her hand after the crash and was 'trying to hide it' (she had her head in her hands....) as she tried to ring me. Our car has about 2k worth of damage, still waiting for Hastings to agree repairs, nothing heard from them - must chase them up tomorrow. Hopefully Lucy can help out.

Dave

Hit by overtaking car - dizzyquincy
Hi, would really love to know how you got on with this and the issue of liability as suffered the exact same scenario this August all be it that the other driver admits he saw me indicate but still chose to overtake. He has told the insurance company that he saw me indicate but mitigates it by saying I indicated and turned at the same time. Any guidance greatly appreciated.
Hit by overtaking car - RT

Indicating doesn't aquire any "rights" to perform the manoeuvre.

If you saw him overtaking and still indicated/pulled out then you're in the wrong and if you didn't see him overtaking that's even worse, either poor observation or "driving without due care and attention"

Hit by overtaking car - Avant

We haven't heard from Hub for 2 years, and I don't think we will now.