VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car.

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Wed 10 Nov 2010 18:50
VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car. - PNod

I "bought" a golf Mark V 1.4 fsi yesterday at 8pm (except that I require a definition of bought), part exchanging a car for it. The test drive was on Saturday, the car was fine with no warning lights. There was about 1/4 tank of petrol in it. The car was paid for by bank transfer on the Saturday, but the dealer would not release the car until last night. I arrived at 7:15pm, the final sale was signed at 7:50, and then another hour was spent filling out the V5's and the part exchange details, checking through my old car. and that all the bits were there. At 20:50, I got into the golf to find that there was no petrol it was on the last bar, and that the engine temperature was at more than 47 degrees which was odd because it hadn't been driven for at least the two hours I was there.

Because of the lack of petrol I stopped at a petrol station, turned off the ignition and filled up. Having had a golf before I made sure the petrol cap was turned till it clicked. Got into the car turned on the ignition and the exhaust system light that normal goes out didn't. Drove the car home, next day the exhaust system light is still on. Have a diagnosis at VW tomorrow morning.

The dealer asked one question, "was the light on when you left", and appears to think that because of that it would be the my problem.He has offered to have someone run a computer on it on Friday/ Saturday, but that would be as a favour.

The car is in limp home mode now with the engine not heating up enough for the turbo to engage, but I'm not sure if the turbo would turn on as it's an fsi from what I understand it has the ability to disengage so may be off permanently until the warning light is investigated. I cannot wait until the dealer gets someone to attach a computer to it as I require the car everyday. I would not be prepared to drive the car to his house when it is in limp home mode for fear of damaging anything else.

The sales contract states "sold as seen", "without warranty or guarantee" and I was required to sign that I had examined the vehicle and it appeared to be in satisfactory condition, which I agree, it did appear to be in satisfactory condition on 6th November.

However I am concerned that

a) the petrol in the vehicle at the time of purchase a quarter of a tank should be mine

b) that the car was driven at high speed prior to my arrival because that engine was very hot even after two hours on a cool night

c) that running the vehicle down to the last bar may have caused it to trigger the warning light from lack of fuel or since I do not know the state of the fuel filter, some sludge at the bottom of the tank.

If the vehicle was as I had seen it on the 6th with the petrol intact I do not believe this would have happened, or if it being very hot was the cause, as I await the diagnostic tomorrow morning. I have driven the vehicle this morning at not more than 30 mph and after 2 miles the temperature had not exceeded 38 degrees, last night the vehicle was not driven by myself at more than 60 Mph and the temperature was dropping to the 40 degree mark.

Now what is the legal situation ?

Thank you.

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Wed 10 Nov 2010 20:00
VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car. - LucyBC
A dealer cannot sell to a private buyer "sold as seen".

Unless you are a dealer too you can deal with this through Trading Standards or under consumer legislation. I can help you with this but I need a great deal more information.

Write to me at asklucy@honestjohn.co.uk with full details of the deal, the dealership, the car and the transaction and I will come back to you.
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Wed 10 Nov 2010 22:49
VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car. - PNod

Thank you for your rapid reply. The Dealer was from home, listed on this website as a "Home Trader". I can copy you the documents that I signed and email them to you.

I find it surprising that one cannot have a vehicle "sold as seen" to a private buyer as in having bought about 4 cars over the last six years either from Home Traders or Second hand dealers, I'm pretty sure that each time the invoice has "sold as seen" and/ or "trade sale" on it, even though I have no connection with trade or anything similar.

I've also seen "any price under the screen price is sold as a trade sale" at one secondhand car premises.

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Thu 11 Nov 2010 06:42
VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car. - LucyBC
They think it is a way to get round Sale of Goods legislation which offers protection to the consumer as a member of the public.

If you are not a trader then marking it up as a Trade Sale does not make it one and they would have to contend that you were - or possibly represented yourself as - a trader for it to afford them any protection.
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Thu 11 Nov 2010 08:15
VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car. - PNod

Wow, you work all hours. Am just sending over two bills of sale/ invoices, but will only have the diagnositics at midday.

Something odd, I was informed that the central temperature display was engine temperature by the dealer (and one was to wait until it passed 37 degree C until the car was warmed up), whereas it may be a faulty outside temperature gauge. Checking the VW forums leads me to believe this, plus last night it did display 3 degrees and a frost warning before climbing to 20 degrees as I drove around the block repeatedly. It took 8 miles of driving climbing 0.5 degrees in a linear manner, seeming to correlate with time the car has been on rather than temperature (it being 0 degrees centigrade here last night) . Yet the evening I picked it up the "temperature" dropped which I haven't seen yet, I need to talk to VW to find out what is going on and also log what the car displays this morning when I turn it on. (13.5 degrees C when ouside temp is 8 degrees, now rising to 17 degrees in 2 minutes, ahh now it has froazen at 17.5)

So I do not know what has happened to the vehicle whether it has been overheated, it certainly has been driven, was lacking petrol, and it appears that the dealer mis-informed me about a temperature dial. I'm obviously still concerned about the warning light and whether the lack of petrol caused it. Is there an area on this site that lists one's exact sale of goods rights, even when the seller is claiming all kinds of things like "trade sale", or "sold as seen" to members of the public.

Thank you

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Thu 11 Nov 2010 12:33
VW Golf Mark V - What legally can I do ? Home trader car. - LucyBC

If there was a fault with it when you bought it then the dealer should fix it. You need to give them the opportunity to do so.

On the mileage it depends when the sale actually took place. Once the sale is complete they should not really use it but I wouldn't trouble the court if it was only a few miles and the remaining claim is over a quarter tank of petrol.

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Thu 11 Nov 2010 10:25
Sold As Seen - bonzo dog

Hi PNod, sorry to hear of your experiences & I'm very much for consumer legistlation protecting the private buyer but I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions?

  1. you were not "required" to sign The sales contract which states "sold as seen", "without warranty or guarantee" , so why did you do so? You could have chosen not to buy the car
  2. As you find it surprising that one cannot have a vehicle "sold as seen" to a private buyer as in having bought about 4 cars over the last six years either from Home Traders or Second hand dealers, why do you feel it OK to then want the dealer to fix a problem?

Like I said, I am in favour of legistlation but do feel some customers don't help themselves by agreeing (or even suggesting) that for a price reduction they will take the car "sold as seen"

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Thu 11 Nov 2010 13:24
Sold As Seen - PNod

Hello Bonzo Dog,

Yes I could have chosen not to buy a car, and I signed to say that I had found nothing wrong with the car which is entirely true. When you drive down the road and a fault develops, then you start to think whether the car is fit for purpose which I think is a basic right and it does also say that my statuatory rights are not affected.

As mentioned, the sales bill states my statuatory rights are not affected so I would expect the car to be functional and for the dealer to repair it if it were not. I wouldn't sign something that said I had no rights at all, if I were to do that, I would buy a car privately.

The verdict is still out as to the condition and causes of the warning light, it appears that error codes have been reset previous to my purchasing it, information is missing from the ECU and appears corrupted. The central temperature guage is entirely broken and is for the external temperature so I was mis-informed about it's purpose, so the car may not have been thrashed even though it was driven (although the length of time the car is driven seems to increment the temperature). The air conditioning that "needs a regas" has broken sensor, this I did spot prior to purchase, I would accept a regas, not the £192 estimate to repair the broken sensors (which weren't showing up because someone has turned off the warnings, corrupted the ECU).

Because someone has cleared error codes and altered the ECU, it is not possible to determine if there is an actual exhuast fault, only that historically there has been one. This still puts me in a situation where I do not know what to do, the temp guage was mis-information and the air conditioning is not acceptable, but proving the cause of the error light seems impossible unless the ECU is reprogrammed by VW and then the real cause becomes apparent.

Philip

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Thu 11 Nov 2010 13:45
Sold As Seen - bonzo dog

Seems to me a suitable case for rejection & money back

Good luck

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