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2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

Hi

I have been offered a 35 month old 36,000 mile VW Golf from a VW dealer with 12 month VW Approved Warranty. It is seriously good value BUT prior to receiving a full service at the dealer it had never had one.

Should I walk or are we worrying for no reason.


Cheers
RG

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - miata

I have heard of VW"S Long Life Servicing but one oil and filter change in three years and 36000 miles is a little too far.

Personally i would not go near even with a twelve month warranty depending what is covered.

I think some expensive engine repairs will not be too far away.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - injection doc
This uesd to be common a few years back with things like options 123 where someone would buy a car they couldn't afford and thrash it for 3 years & no service and just hand it back!
walk away
2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

Thanks for your responses.

What exactly should have been done at say 2 years 20,000 miles?

I am advised that the new Synthetic oils should be good for 50,000 miles or 5 years. What else should have been done? Handbrake adjustment, brake checks etc.

If VW give it a clean bill of health and a 12 month (maybe even 24 month) all component warranty am I risking anything. It is seriously cheap!!

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - injection doc

20k oil life has always been a debate in its self. i for one dont accept that oil lasts in a diesel for 20 K safely and certainly not 50K or 5 years.

in fact recently i have noticed that the oil in my wifes Fiesta 1.6TDCI seems to deteriorate afetr 6 months and the fuel economey starts to drop untill the oil is changed and the same thing happened on my freelander2.

The car is cheap becuase it has no service history! what will happen when you want to pass it on ? and if a warranty issue ever arises although its a 2007 there will never be a good will gesture.

Why ask for our opinion when 2 of us have said walk but you don't think anythings wrong.

Oh I'm sorry but Ive only been in the trade 35 years, should of known better really that someone down the pub will know better

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

I have spoken with a VW Service Manager and a Sales Manager at another dealer who I know well.

The car is £3000 under retail (£1200 under trade) and will have a full VW Comprehensive warranty for at least 12 months. My thinking is that if there is going to be a problem with an allegedly bullet proof VWTdi (not talking Ford here) it will soon present itself and be covered. In 2 years time car will have approx 55k miles and service history for last 2. In all probability the value at that time for a lack of history will be less than £200 as at that age condition is so much more important.

I appreciate 35 years is a long time, but my main question is around fact based knowledge and expertise of new synthetic oils and their life.

I appreciate there will never be a good will gesture but these tend to expire at 5 years old anyway don't they.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - injection doc
"and will have a full VW Comprehensive warranty for at least 12 months. My thinking is that if there is going to be a problem with an allegedly bullet proof VWTdi"

these are not bullet proof by any means and that is what would concern me.
The fully comprehensive warranty , how comprehensive when it all goes wrong and questions are asked about its prior service history!
I spent some time at an Oil research and development centre and used to see all these oils tested and the results so i make my own judgement and everything has its limitations.
I agree as the car gets older the value will balance but for me i wouldn't buy it myself and i am sure there are many others that wouldn't iether
2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

Thanks.

I spoke at lunch time to an old friend who has an MSc in Mechanical Engineering from Warwick and is a Senior Engineer at Rolls Royce. His view is that unless wildly abused the only problem using synthetic for so long is the likelihood that the engine will not bed in as quickly. After 36000 miles it should be OK.

The VW approved Warranty is only sold with a used car after the VW dealer has gone through a full range of checks so no problem that the coverage is 100%. Would you rather pay 11,000 for a car with 1 service stamp or £8k for one without?

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - quizman
I would take the senior Rolls Royce engineer's advice. They never have problems with their engines, do they?
2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - injection doc

there are on or two Boeings that might question that remark at present.

My concerns would be with the EGR valve and Turbo , tappets and oil pressure relief valve etc including degrdation of shells due to acid build up in the oil and the gumming up from lack of oil changes and oil degredation

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - Collos25

Especially those big things that go in the air.

Why is the car so cheap because they have no problem in putting another stamp in the service book its probably got a hidden agenda like damage repair ,talk to the previous owner if you can.Dealers do not sell cars cheap unless there is a very very good reason and a service stamp missing is not one of them.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

Thanks for all your comments. It is actually a main dealer swap to hide their embarrassment on a car we purchased for our daughter earlier in the year. The dealer is swapping for a year newer better spec vehicle free of charge possibly to avoid any adverse publicity following 4 attempts to remedy bodywork faults prior to delivery. Hence I am mentioning no names!!

Collect car any day now so fingures crossed. If it is not as described we will not be going ahead with it but happy to chance the missed oil change.

Cheers

RG

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - Collos25

How many oil changes and services has it missed there are those who would say at least three. Glass palace garages do not have any embarassing features only how to make profit.I hope the car is ok for you and gives no problems I assume they are going to service the car free of charge before you collect it.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

The car is 34 months old. 36,000 miles.

I has missed the 24 month service. VW reckon you can go up to 30,000 miles on some models without a service.


The Vehicle will have a FULL 3 year 40,000 service and multi point VW pre-sale inspection too. + New (first MOT) and 2 years VW Comprehensive Warranty.

I think most VW and Audi Garages are basically OK. These folks have put their hands up and admitted to their mistakes with current cars bodywork and seem keen to make amends. Basically every time their Bodyshop touches it the matters get worse!!

If they do mess me about there will be a comprehensive report sent to VW UK, Chas Hallett at Autocar and assorted Motoring Journals/Trading Standards.

Fingers crossed all will be OK!

Cheers

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

Two weeks on and nearly a thousand miles.. she's running like a dream and 45mpg.

Hope it lasts, presumably a few months gentle running and a few more services will put aside any worries. Thanks to PC!

Cheers

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - davmal

Oil life is a contentious issue at the best of times. I work on engines which have their oil changed on analysis rather than time and have seen 3000 hours + on a fill and top up. Equivalent to 90,000 miles at 30 mph. But I also have engines which are specified as an oil change 250 hourly, equivalent to 7500 miles at 30 mph. And that is using the same oil in both cases.

More concerning to me would have been the condition of other parts that were no checked at a service, discs, hoses, fault codes etc, but if the garage has serviced it then you should be safe.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

Thanks Davmal... That was re-assuring! The missed service would have checked all sorts of stuff but on a relatively new car a first service at such a relatively low mileage is unlikely to find problems with discs hoses etc and as you say it has now had a Full Inspection and has a VW approved Warranty for 2 years. I think your analysis is useful. I for one was of the old school changing oil every 6000 miles until I was persuaded by my friend the Rolls Royce (MSc) Engineer that oil technology has moved on. Thanks again.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - RGBArgee

So far so good after 6000 miles, she hasn't missed a beat.


Only problem ... Filling up with Diesel, Is there a problem or do they all click a lot as you refuel or is there a fix??

Cheers

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - Roly93

If it has truly never had a service since new at 36K I would be very worried.

However this car needn't have had its first service till about 18-19K miles, so theoretically it shoul only just have had its second service.

It might be an idea to see if a VW dealer can find the service details on their national database, my Audi had no stamp for its second service but it had one.

Sorry, just noticed this is a pretty old post..

Edited by Roly93 on 30/03/2011 at 21:09

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - SteveLee

The Royce Royce engineer is talking nonsense, the oil will be packed full of contaminants at that mileage the detergent and anti-sludge packages would be well past their sell-by dates, the oil filter will be on full bypass as it'll be blocked and of course the warranty wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on as Injection Doc said.

We only stretch cars to 20K intervals now to keep the company car/lease-buyer bean-counters happy. The oil is well shot by that stage, the reason we get away with it is because modern engines are manufactured to such excellent standards. Changing the oil more often will greatly extend the service life of any engine. Service intervals are set to the least number required to get cars through the warranty period in one piece. A petrol-engined car might (might!) get through such an ordeal unscathed, but a diesel engined car kills its oil much quicker due to soot contamination.

I'd buy that Golf if it was half price - other than that, I'd walk away.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - 659FBE

Profit is the reward for taking a risk.

The original poster is well aware of the risks and has chosen to take the profit. I might well have done the same thing.

The VAG 1.9 PD is a durable engine, factory filled with a high quality synthetic lubricant. In use, bad things can happen to any car such as mis fuelling or running short of oil. I would be far more worried about these two misfortunes occuring on a second hand car I was considering - and yet they happen all the time. Of course, these events are not documented.

Assuming otherwise fair treatment, my views are much as those given by the RR engineer - fully synth oils are remarkably durable lubricants. The oil filter on the PD is generously sized, and having sectioned a filter element (mine) which had covered 20k miles from one of these engines, on this basis, 30k miles would not remotely give a soot blockage.

My main concern with the PD engines of this era is that the factory fill of synth oil does not always allow proper ring bedding - hence their reputation for oil consumption. My own PD (AWX) ran for 20k miles on its original fill and was no doubt hammered as a VAG rep-mobile. Its oil consumption is commendably low at about 250cc in 7k miles.

Don't worry about it - but don't push your luck subsequently. You probably have a very well bedded PD.

659.

Edited by 659FBE on 30/03/2011 at 23:50

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - SteveLee

659FBE, A large American oil company I worked for spent a amount of money testing competitors' fully synth oils before developing and bringing their offering to the market. All brands of oil were severely compromised viscosity-wise by 5,000 miles - except Mobil 1 which was by far the best oil on the market; “Our” oil joined the list of also-rans despite the millions of dollars spent and the fancy claims on the packaging. No oil lasts anywhere near 20K miles (in terms of staying in grade) let alone 30+K miles - not even Mobil 1. And that's before you consider the degrading of the various chemical packages which are there to control oil acidity, particle suspension etc.The lubricative properties of oil has actually declined in recent years as we've added more chemical stabilisers to stretch service intervals as well as removing the oils' greatest friend and safety net - zinc - as it contaminates catalytic converters, these factors along with the general drop in viscosity to enable the use of built-down-to-a-price batteries and starter motors as well as improving fuel efficiency haven't helped matters either. If we built engines to modern exacting standards but serviced them the old-fashioned way with proper, thick, additive-free oil changed frequently I wouldn't be surprised if they'd all rack up 1,000,000 miles!

Yes this car may well be fine depending on the average road conditions it's been driven in - but the oil won't be - VW superbrew or not. it won't be a nicely bedded in PD, it'll be a one good thrash away from exploding PD until you change the oil. If the car has been warmed up properly and has generally trundled up and down motorways at sane speeds, the engine will probably be fine as there's very little wear given that usage profile, you could almost lube an engine with water in those driving conditions. Any stressful engine loads and the oil will breakdown leading to rapid wear (probably big ends) and possible catastrophic engine failure.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - 659FBE

This is a discussion which can run and run.

Many cars are criminally neglected in terms of oil changes. When did you last see an engine with worn crank bearings - assuming no oil starvation?

Many commercial operators use oil analysis as a guide to change intervals - some allowing oil to remain in service for >30k miles. Not all of these applications are long haul vehicles and yet long engine lives are achieved.

659.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - injection doc

I agree with Steve Lee's comments about Oil. I too have seen Mobil 1 tested against other oils at a well known research centre on numerous occasions and nothing else comes close. I also used to drive a Carlton 3.0 24v GSi and would Tow a twin Axel caravan down to the south of France. When in exceptional heat the oil light would flicker at idle when stopping at the tolls. The handbook stated this was normal. Over several years I used different oils to compare but one year I used mobil 1 and in temps of 40+ and having been driving for over 11 hours the oil pressure used to remain at over 1.5 bar at Idle. That was enough to convince me too.

Oils are not capable of lasting the period to full effect but the manufactures use the high mileage intervals to sell cars ! They dont care what happens to the car when its over 60K+ miles.

2007 VW Golf 1.9 Tdi Match - Would you buy this car - TEDBEY

I think if no unusual noises were and still are undetected the engine will be fine. I'm a believer in regular oil change if nothing else. Change the oil and filter again now you've done a few miles the do it twice a year. I had an everyday use Mk2 RS2000 for 10 years and after 105 k miles it barely puffed small cloud of smoke on start and ran as sweet as the day I got it at 2 years old not knowing how it had been treated cos in those days there were no such thing as sevice books ! Just sold my Audi A4 TDI 110 at 210k, bought at 156k (although it had 13 Audi stamps). About 5th service it did 25 k between oil changes. Again I did oil sevice every 5 k with different makes of oil and that has been the best engine I've had. Never missed a beat and no smoke. Don't get swamped by all the experts views. Enjoy your car and do oil every 5 k.