I have another noddy question for the venerable Back-Roomers (I was delighted after my last query about the difference between off-side and nearside that HJ Himself answered the question with some incredulity in the hallowed pages of the Satursay DT)
Anyway, just suppose that someone should be pushing a heavy trolley load of tiles in a DIY shop car-park whilst at the same time trying to placate a 2yr old boy who has just been removed from the Thomas Tank Engine ride-on when said trolley should bash into an adjacent car. Further suppose that the owner of said car should get awfully stroppy and start demanding the trolley pusher's car insurance details. Would the trolley pusher be right to refuse this. Surely nothing to do with trolley pusher having a car parked right next to the damaged car? Given that irate driver recorded TP's registration number might there be some come-back? Surely, an offer to pay for any damage would suffice?
What if the damage had been caused by the door of TP's car?
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Robin
You sound like you are speaking from personal experience.
I'm not an expert so if I'm contradicted believe them not me. But I can't see how this would be of any interest to the trolley pusher's motor insurer. Maybe different if the damage is done by the car door instead.
In the trolley case, I the pusher is presumably liable but the only legal redress would be to sue them personally (and an offer to pay for the damage renders this unnecessary).
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Agreed
Damage caused by a trolley has nothing to do with car insurance.
Taking the "culprit's" car number would only be of use as identification if the "culprit" refused to supply their name and address (or as verification if the details should prove to be false).
IMHO the case of damage by a car door is a toss-up between the car insurance or third party liability. Can one of our legal eagles clarify?
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Supplimentary.
You are parked; engine off.
Your passenger flings the door into a moving car.
Is this down to your own insurance?
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Supplimentary. You are parked; engine off. Your passenger flings the door into a moving car. Is this down to your own insurance?
Your vehicle did the damage, so your insurance should pay for it. However, if you've got a decent passenger, they should be persuaded to cough up themselves from their own pocket. Similairly as if it were you that flung the door open. Do you cough up, or do you claim on the insurance?
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>> Supplimentary. >> >> You are parked; engine off. >> >> Your passenger flings the door into a moving car. >> >> Is this down to your own insurance? Your vehicle did the damage, so your insurance should pay for it.
You sure? Any back up info?
My old man once parked on an icy hill. He walked off and his car slid down onto another car. No damage but I've often wondered if his insurance would have been held to blame.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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My old man once parked on an icy hill. He walked off and his car slid down onto another car. No damage but I've often wondered if his insurance would have been held to blame.
In this case - yes he is liable, therefore his insurer would pay up. It's not that different from some nomark nicking your car and crashing into someone else - your insurer pays the lot (then hikes your insurance premium).
Back to the trolley pusher... go after the supermarket. Despite the 'no liability' notices they have insurance and would have to pay - you'd still have to go through small claims though (unless they saw sense and settled).
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Despitethe 'no liability' notices they have insurance and would have to pay
What is it with these notices? Every man/woman and his/her dog/female dog puts up notices and disclaimers these days absolving themselves of all responsibility for everything. You can't get out of your legal duty just by putting a sign up or writing it in the small print. Is it just a cynical tactic to try and make those with a complaint give up before they start?
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In the case of the icey hill, one would suppose that it is the responsibility of the person parking the car to make sure it is safely parked. Bit tough when it's icey.
The trolley story brings me to mind my neighbours. The br..er.. 'kids' up the road had a fight and one threw his scooter at his brother and it bounced off my neighbours parked car, causing a dint and a scratch.
She went round and complained and the mother of the kids said 'how do you know it was my kids?' and the neighbour replied that they had been seen doing this. Actually, also seen was the mother coming out, ispecting the damage and then slinking off home again without mentioning it. She was then persuaded to cough up for a professional repair.
During the repair, the kids started throwing stones at the car, the repairman, me, the neighbour and their mother. Aren't we looking forwards to when they get older and learn how to drive?!!
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fortunately I live in an uncilvilised third-world country.
Any brats damage my car, they get a damn good thrashing.
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In the case of the icey hill, one would suppose that it is the responsibility of the person parking the car to make sure it is safely parked. Bit tough when it's icey.
There was no choice. A vehicle in fornt got stuck in the ice.
Traffic blocked him behind. Father got out to help push it. (An 8 wheel truck ;-) ).
It had to be parked, and it had to be parked there!
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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>> Your vehicle did the damage, so your insurance should pay for it.
You sure? Any back up info?
I look at it in the same way that if your vehicle crashed into a third party or their property. You either offer to pay for the repair, or claim off your insurance.
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Regarding supermarket car parks in general, I have over the years picked up minor bodywork damage from doors being flung open and bad parkers. I now park as far away from the supermarket doors as possible preferably with clear spaces either side. Incidentally, have you noticed how the morons who park inconsiderately and right near the entrance are usually fit healthy youngsters in track suts, trainers etc. I know who will be suffering heart diseease in the next 40-50 years.
Doctorchris
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yea and there is something strange about parking as far away as possible, no matter how many free spaces there are around you some idiot will always come and park next to you
must be some old human instinct to group together
either that or they are just stupid
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This never applies in gent's conveniences.
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I had an incident a few years back in a supermarket car par in Battle. Sorry, THE supermarket car park in Battle. Trolley park was overflowing and a loose trolley ran downhill and put a big dent in the side of the XM.
Reported it to supermaket manager, profuse apologies, details etc taken, bunch of flowers for SWMBO (it was our 20th anniversary). Next we heard, supermarket (or their insurers) were denying all responsibility, they emptied trolley parks regularly (not regularly enough, I feel, once a year can be called "regular") it was an act of God or such newspeak. So my comp car insurance had to cough up, and I took the hit on the excess. Even letters to Customer Services director fell on stony gound. Luckily I have a protected NCD.
As a result, I haven't used any branch of Budgens since. Their loss is probably greater than mine by now - whatever happened to goodwill?
Terry
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the supermarket is not strictly liable
but mention of a letter to the local newspaper will usually get them to see sense
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Some car parks are built on slopes.
Trolleys do not have parking brakes.
=negligence?
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Watch out for wind, too.
In half a gale something light blew out of the trolley.
I went to chase after it, the trolley took off like a sand yacht and crashed in the approach/exit road.
Fortunately nothing coming and nothing broken.
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some supermarkets are pretty good when it comes to pleading your case.
my Mother in Law hit a petrol pump at a local supermarket petrol station causing £500 of damage. There followed a bill for the £500, which was waived after she convinced the store manager that she was a loyal customer (which in all fairness she was) and would take her business elsewhere.
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And aren't those £ in the slot trolleys a good way of preventing abandonned/runaway trolleys - at least it ensures that most go back to the trolley park and are not just rolling all over the place ..........at least if they roll away and hit your car it is a bunch of 10 trolleys, makes it worthwhile!
On another tack, many years ago my mother parked on the off side on a steep, long hill while going into a shop to buy something. Couple of minutes later another customer came in and said she had seen a car rolling backwards down said hill. Mother said how awful, lack of handbrake, how careless etc and went out to her car to find it neatly parked at offside but 300 yards down the road. Walked down road to it expecting worst but saw no damage. Came home, got out of car and into front door, told me of her frightening experience but said luckily no damage, good job because dad would have been furious. I went out to have a look. Yes the offside was damage free but the nearside - totally destroyed - every panel severely damaged, front wheel askew etc. Went to have a look at said hill and noticed that several near-side young trees, a couple of lamp-posts and a couple of road signs were strangely bent/knocked over etc! When Dad came home he was led into house via off-side of car, given a large whisky, lovely tea etc and the news broken very gently several hours later after an evening of telling him what a wonderful/reasonable father/husband he was. The family survived.
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Just as soon as I have read all these posts I'm going to order the week's shopping from Tesco.com (Am I allowed to advertise?) Problem solved. It's worth the fiver to keep the car out of those dodgem rinks.
I should say, though, that I find the insides of supermarkets just as bad. Does a crack on the shin constitute 'knock for knock'? Then there is the problem of lane discipline in the aisles, giving way at the frozen foods, overtaking on blind summits at 3 for the price of 2, trolley shed its load at the fish counter.... I've got Trafficmaster in my car, but does it mention the tailbacks at the '10 items or less 'till?
I rest my case and all other parts of my anatomy.
Graeme
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I should say, though, that I find the insides of supermarkets just as bad. Does a crack on the shin constitute 'knock for knock'? Then there is the problem of lane discipline in the aisles, giving way at the frozen foods, overtaking on blind summits at 3 for the price of 2, trolley shed its load at the fish counter.... I've got Trafficmaster in my car, but does it mention the tailbacks at the '10 items or less 'till?
Not to mention those groups of people who park their vehicles in such a way as to block both lanes of the aisle, so they can catch up with the week's gossip with their mates, and thus rendering the aisle totally inaccessible to other aisle-users who have to backtrack and find an alternative route.
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From when I studied a bit of law, I recall a case where a car, parked in a pub car park, was damaged by a moving wheelie bin that didn't have its brake applied.
Despite there being the usual "we accept no responsibilty" sign, negligence on the part of the pub was proved. Can't remember the name of the case though, sorry, was concerned with vicarious liability though I think.
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What about those ****ers who push their trolley into the back of your legs when you are queuing at the till? Drives me mad. I bet they are the ones who fling open their car doors and account for the selection of door dings all my cars seem to collect in supermarket car parks. I now seek out and park next to a car which looks like a privately owned pride and joy, not one with signs of occupation by kids. I always open my doors carefully when close parked.
I don't think that the 'accept no responsibility' thing can apply when supermarkets have not been sticking to their duty of care. If you slipped on a badly cleared up spill in store you could sue them, and they know it, so if they take no care to make sure that their trolleys don't trundle off and cause damage, then I can't see that they are not liable.
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Just to put another side to this. As a student I worked for a supermarket, and one of my jobs was to collect trolleys from the f***hest reaches of the car park. Drivers never seemed to grasp the physics of pushing ten trolleys tied together. They can not be stopped quickly, let me tell you. In a six week period I think I hit two cars that pulled out right in front of me, causing damage to both. My colleagues had a similar record. As far as I know, the supermarket paid up. After an "incident" like that we had to make a report, and were usually banished to meat freezer work (minus 35C is an uncomfortable temperature, believe me) for a week. The manager thought this was funny, until one of us asked him to hold a stainless steel pen that had been deliberately frozen, and his bare hand stuck to it. Tee hee.
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F arthest reaches. Dontcha just love this bad word checker?
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