My wife needs a car for sort runs, school runs, etc. about 5 miles at a time.
My Picasso HDi takes miles to warm up, her rover 214sli literaly gets toasty after a few hundred yards.
If I got her a 1.4 HDi or similar, will it wear out prematurely as it will never reach proper temp (not to mention never having any cabin heat).
Would a small 1.1 or 1.4 petrol last longer as (going by the rover) it would at least reach oprating temp?
regards
Alf
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Alf
SWMBO uses a diesel for some short runs (some only 1 mile) but we do make a point of giving it a long-distance gallop every now and again (see my post under Citroen Berlingo)- I think you'd need to do this whatever fuel you went for.
I'd have thought diesel engines would probably wear less with cold-only runs and you're pre-heating the bores. Probably less risk of catalyst damage too.
Terry
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My non-expert vote would go for the diesel. Although the engine block takes longer to reach full temp (presumably because of a larger mass and less fuel being burnt) the petrol engine will be running richer for longer, thereby rinsing more oil off the bores and sending more unburnt fuel down the exhaust. My impression is that fuel consumption of a diesel is less affected by short trips than a petrol.
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I think a diesel would be better, it is less wastefull of fuel when warming up. A petrol engine would probably get coked up if used cold all the time.I think a fairly regular long run in it would be advisable as for any engine. Twice a year oil changes would probably help the engine from wearing prematurely.
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My wife drives on average 3,500 miles in a year. Average journey length 1 mile (to within 100 yards). She has done so for 22 years..
Petrol cars: All shapes and ages. Carbonned up, rusted exhausts, gummed up carbs/fuel injection, starting problems.
Diesel car:(Peugeot 106). 1 exhaust mid section after 9 years. No starting problems apart from 2 defunct glow plugs.
No doubt at all which is best suited.
(and the Pug's heater heats up after 3/4 miles...)
madf
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"My Picasso HDi takes miles to warm up"
Is the thermostat OK?
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From my experience when the thermostat sticks open the engine will takes ages to warm up and will never usually reach normal operating temperature(usually dial sit right in the middle).
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Ive made journeys of just under 5 miles to work for the last 25 years and can honestly state that i had never had any problems due to short trips. Obviously the back silencer box gets badly condensed but other than that no problems. All the cars were petrol ranging from a 1.3 to 2l engines. Tests have proved a diesel takes longer to warm up so if you go for this option be prepared to dress up.
The silencer on my previous car a Nissan primera is still on the original back box (middle section has been changed after 4 years)
and now my son uses it for journeys under 4 miles to his work, The Nissan is a 1997 2slx model.
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Some modern diesel engines have glowplugs in the coolant to enable warm air to be available sooner. I'm sure my Vectra DI has glow plugs in the coolant, as I get warm(ish) air within about third of a mile. If you set your ventilation contols to 'Recirculate', I find the cabin warms up faster. Definately a diesel for shorter runs, but trips of a miles?! Walk!!
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I just tested my Astra diesel's warming up abilities. After 1/5 of a mile there was warm air coming through, and by 3/5 I had to turn the heating down as it was too hot. I'm pretty sure it can't have any special glow plugs because it's 10 years old.
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The 330's temp guage is off the red within half a minute of start up and warm air available within another half minute and is at full operating temp by the end of the lane (about 1/2 a mile).
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And I thought my car was a warm one, I wish it warmed up that fast!
Don't think I can give any actual advice apart from envying those with fast heating cars, :) as my journeys vary from 0.5 miles to about 8 miles regularly with occasional motorway blasts and almost daily blasts on a country road which involves lots of revs (once the engine is warmer of course)
So how's the Astra workinng out then HF? I just realised I never asked since you got it, does it do everyting it says on the tin? :) Apart from fending off angry morons that is! I still can't get over what an idiot that man was...
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Hi Blue, and thanks for asking :)
Though I hate to say it, (like I said earlier in discussion I hate to tempt fate) it is doing fine so far! May I hold you personally responsible for that question, should something go wrong tomorrow?;)
I don't have a tin yet (if by that you mean handbook or something else, sorry I am demonstrating my ignorance yet again here :(
But it's doing me ok so far, it's really good of you to ask.
As for the angry moron - well just hearing some support on here for that situation makes me feel a whole lot better - so thank you, I really appreciate your words.
Guess I'm lucky that my car warms up quickly - although maybe I need to make more use of the cooling fan after incidents like the one the other day.
Thanks for your concern, Blue, it really is much appreciated.
HF
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Anytime HF :)
The "everything it says on the tin" bit was a take off from the Ronseal adverts (I think it was Ronseal), it was very late and I had not long been back from 12 busy hours at work so I probably didn't word it brilliantly and it wasn't very funny either. :) Never mind, pleased to hear it's working well. I think I may get a Diesel next time around, it would make my fuel bills so much lighter...
You certainly may hold me personally resposible for anything which goes wrong tomorrow. Although I have few assets of my own so you can't sue me, you'll just have to come on and shout at me until you feel better! :)
Anyway, I've again not been back long from another very busy 12 hours at work, and I've got uni in the morning so I'd best go to bed now :( Let me know if this post has any other weird tiredness related bits in it! :)
Blue
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Hi Blue,
The "everything it says on the tin" bit was a take off from the Ronseal adverts
You worded it fine, and it was funny, it's just my own denseness due to fatigue that made me fail to 'get it'.
I think I may get aDiesel next time around, it would make my fuel bills so much lighter...
For what it's worth, I think it's a good idea to get a diesel, my fuel bills seem quite a lot lighter despite the much bigger engine.
You certainly may hold me personally resposible for anything which goes wrong tomorrow. Although I have few assets of my own so you can't sue me, you'll just have to come on and shout at me until you feel better! :)
Haven't broken down yet today, and that's despite an extra unexpected hour's journey first thing. So no need for me to rant at you yet :)
Let me know if this post has any other weird tiredness related bits in it! :)
No, all made perfect sense to me! :)
HF
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Many interesting and useful replies here. One further thing to be aware of. A diesel engine will develop full power from cold, because it does not need to reach operating temperature in order for the fuel to atomise and burn properly - as is the case with a petrol engine.
For my money - lots of short trips = diesel + a sensible policy towards frequent oil changes (applies to petrol, too).
Ian Cook
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Totally agree Ian, diesels waste far less fuel when cold.
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Thanks for all your opinions out there in Honestjohnland.
My Picasso Hdi is working fine. It seems to be a feature of these modern generation diesel engines that they take yonks to warm up thus turning the traditional situation on its head.
I suppose that heat is a waste of energy when what you really want is kinetic energy and they are very good on efficiency.
My old XUD 1.9 Citroen/puegot disel cars use to warm up in a flash.
I'll probably go for another diesel in the end, so long as the car has some sort of rapid heater device, 'cos the Picasso up here in the Highlands is like a fridge for the first few miles.
Regards,
Alf
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You could always keep it plugged into a Kenlowe Hotstart .. ..
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I'm confused here, other posts state modern diesels warm up in less than a mile, you seem to be saying the HDI does not?. Modern diesels are now more efficient so i would assume less heat losses so longer warm up? unless there is a "quick" heat system of some kind installed, anyone know?
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My Audi A4 TDI used to take 2 miles in summer, 4 in winter to warm up. The latest version has a diesel burning heater to warm the inhabitants in winter.
It's a function of efficiency and cooling systems I guess. The Audi NEVER overheated even in 30C + temperatures...
madf
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There is a quick heat system on my wife's Xantia HDi. No mention of it in the handbook that I can find and I can't understand what the French "Revue Technique" says about it. The giveaway is a little exhaust pipe just in front of the nearside front wheel which emits steam after a very short journey with heater and fan turned up to full. (My wife thought the car was on fire when she first saw the steam!!) You can also hear the motor/fan which continues to run when engine switched off. (no its not the cooling fans) Might this not also be found on Picasso HDis? Would be interested to hear the more knowledgable among you explain how/why/when it works
PhilW
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PhilW,
Hi, I have no knowledge on your subject, but if you want to know what your French text says badly enough to copy it out, post it here and I will have a crack at translating it.
[Btw, if you happen to consider yourself quite gifted in French, but you still don't understand it, then don't bother!]
Bono estente,
Ton zebre
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There are 2 issues here,
The choice between Petrol and Diesel should hinge on mileage and use. Low annual mileage = Petrol vs High annual mileage = Diesel.
(Unless your like me and enjoy diesels)
A diesel engine will generally always take longer to warm up. It's more efficient inherently and burns less fuel. If you drive a cold diesel so the Turbo blows, It'll warm up quicker due to more fuel/air being burnt(Don't cane it though when it's cold!!)
As a petrol burns more fuel (generally), it'll warm up quicker.
Direct Injection diesels (HDi's TDi'S etc) will take longer to warm up than Indirect injection diesels. This will answer the man who said about his old 1.9D warming up in a flash!
With regard to engine wear, Diesel is an oil, Petrol is a solvent. So if a Diesel doesn't warm up completely, the fuel oil residue is still lubricating the bores. Petrol is stripping the bores of oil although the engine all largely lubricates well enough.
Some Diesels (Skoda Fabia TDI and Audi A2)have electrical supplementary heaters to address the long warming up time.
Decide on the most economical solution for your needs. Diesel is more fuel efficient on a short run, but you'll be paying a premium for the diesel engine.
FIN
Cheers - Jon S
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There is no doubt that diesel is best for short runs. There is no "choke" phase so much better consumption, and you will not ruin your exhaust system. The big downside as you point out is the slow warm up which causes wear, and makes your missus's teeth to chatter. SO; fit an electric block heater. Your car will last forever, your wife will be toasty warm. All she has to remember is not to tow the house away. (ie disconnect it before driving off.)Good Luck.
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